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My mother would correct our bad grammar as children. It used to embarrass me, but I am so happy she did that now and I do the same for my children. I had a woman tell me she didn't get why people correct grammar because it shouldn't matter, but she's from the South and sounds very uneducated herself even though she's very intelligent. I feel it has hurt her ability to get certain jobs, though she doesn't see the correlation and I'm not going to point it out to her. I know no matter what someone's skill level is, if they applied for a job at my office and sounded like an uneducated hick, there is no way that person would be hired. It's even worse when that same bad grammar creeps into someone's writing.
I live in the South, and I did correct someone's grammar(when I was in high school). The response I got was basically "whatever". Interestingly enough, I never had to worry about my parents correcting me on my grammar. Maybe it was because they used decent grammar in the home every day that it rubbed off on me.
Since this is about African-Americans, and I'm African-American, I will give my own account of one teacher I had. I moved location in the middle of 4th grade. However, before I did, my 4th grade teacher was an African-American male. He was a stickler for grammar. He would even get onto you for how you pronounced a word. One kid, who happened to be African-American, pronounced four "fo' ". His response to the kid's pronunciation was "you have an enemy", as the teacher was referring to the word "foe". I remember being nine and thinking "why don't I talk like the other Black kids in the class"?
And he was also a teacher who wanted to expand our vocabulary. I learned the word "oblivious" at age 9 because of him. Actually, I don't think he ever had to correct my grammar. He was the type of man who knew the value of an education and wanted to impart this on his students.
One thing about correcting grammar that I've noticed is this. Some people get angry because they feel like they are being told "you aren't adequate". It is taken quite personal. I've seen people on facebook, even the educated, put memes basically glorifying sounding ignorant.
I live in the South, and I did correct someone's grammar(when I was in high school). The response I got was basically "whatever". Interestingly enough, I never had to worry about my parents correcting me on my grammar. Maybe it was because they used decent grammar in the home every day that it rubbed off on me.
Since this is about African-Americans, and I'm African-American, I will give my own account of one teacher I had. I moved location in the middle of 4th grade. However, before I did, my 4th grade teacher was an African-American male. He was a stickler for grammar. He would even get onto you for how you pronounced a word. One kid, who happened to be African-American, pronounced four "fo' ". His response to the kid's pronunciation was "you have an enemy", as the teacher was referring to the word "foe". I remember being nine and thinking "why don't I talk like the other Black kids in the class"?
And he was also a teacher who wanted to expand our vocabulary. I learned the word "oblivious" at age 9 because of him. Actually, I don't think he ever had to correct my grammar. He was the type of man who knew the value of an education and wanted to impart this on his students.
One thing about correcting grammar that I've noticed is this. Some people get angry because they feel like they are being told "you aren't adequate". It is taken quite personal. I've seen people on facebook, even the educated, put memes basically glorifying sounding ignorant.
I didn't have many grammar problems for the same reason, but I did live next door to a girl from the country who said ain't a lot. I said it once in front of my mom and she yelled at me. I was in 4th grade myself at the time, but it sure made an impression on me. She'd always say things like, "You sound like white trash!" I wince when I hear people say that word now.
I moved in the middle of 4th grade too, and honestly my new school was the first time I ever had a black teacher. Her name was Mrs. McBride, and she was by far the best teacher I ever had. She was the type to relate personal stories to nearly everything, and we all loved her. Her advice on bullying wouldn't fly in today's anti-bullying world, but it sure would be good advice for kids today - stand up to the bullies, even if they're bigger than you and you get beat up in the process. They'll respect you for it. Of course, that only works with physical bullying, and these days could get you expelled from school or even arrested. In my day it might have got you a couple of hours at the principal's office and maybe a one-day suspension.
After all these years I still recall many of her stories. She was a good instructor as well, but it was her stories that had a profound affect on my life. I only had two teachers in my life I could say that about, and she was one.
Strong movement? What if a Gullah marries a Gaelic speaking Irishman from Ireland? WHICH culture gets to be rammed down their kids' through and which culture's allowed to die? I'm talking about here in the US. Otherwise what you're saying smells like Jim Crow.
Strange post...there are many ethnic groups that pass on their cultures to their children. They cleave together and from strong, tight knit communities to do so. Why is it a problem if the Gullah want to do it?
I come from a mixed home and my parents taught us our heritages. My children are going to be even more mixed, and my husband and I will do the same. Not sure what Jim Crow has to do with anything. Sounds like you are paranoid of certain groups retaining their identities.
Having lived among and with Gullah for years now, as well as having my child educated alongside the Gullah, I'm pretty sure I can speak with some authority on the subject. Trust me, it's a little different living with and personally knowing Gullah versus listening to something on a youtube video. While my own family cannot be considered part of the Gullah community (my Dad's side is from a bit further down in Savannah), I have always been quite interested in the community because of how they managed to retain their identity, languages, and customs all of these years. Thus, my interest.
My point is that I do not think the Gullah patois has that large an influence in the failing schools in this district. If a teacher treated a Gullah student poorly, I think that's the sign of a bad teacher, not a sign of a larger district wide culture. My daughter was in honors classes with Gullah students so not sure where that nonsense about them not being allowed in honors courses came from. However, I do think the Gullah should be treated as ESL students upon entering school because this would help their English scores since they would receive extra instruction in English. There's nothing wrong with that - it would help them succeed so I think that's only to their benefit.
The Gullah is protected, quite aggressively, here in our state from everything to their livelihoods to their communities. The thing is, not every black in Charleston is a Gullah and in fact, the true Gullah numbers are quite small. The failing school district has a larger problem of too much crime and too little traditional families. I don't think it's a primary language issue that is causing this huge achievement gap. It's like many other failing districts - lack of parental involvement, lack of value placed on education, and too much crime that can both entice and entrap the students.
Not sure you are really grasping what my posts are saying, but no biggie.
Strange post...there are many ethnic groups that pass on their cultures to their children. They cleave together and from strong, tight knit communities to do so. Why is it a problem if the Gullah want to do it?
I come from a mixed home and my parents taught us our heritages. My children are going to be even more mixed, and my husband and I will do the same. Not sure what Jim Crow has to do with anything. Sounds like you are paranoid of certain groups retaining their identities.
The main reason the US is or was strong was because we have 1 main culture which is based on England. The rest of our "cultures" that do well changed as needed to fit in, not the other way round. I'm of Irish family and a LOT of Ireland's culture from back in the day like fighting and heavy drinking don't fly in 2014. Let that "culture" stay dead and buried.
It's another lost battle in the culture war if anything, schools do not correct the inner city cadence and the students are at a disadvantage later in life because of it.
This is true but a politically touchy subject so is never dealt with properly in school. For most of elementary school my children (who speak "standard english") attended majority black schools. There were MAJOR communication problems even though most of the black kids were native speakers. My kids had to rephrase things repeatedly just to get simple points across. I don't know how much was a vocabulary issue vs accent, conjugation, inflection. Black english in its thickest form qualifies as a separate dialect (but NOT a separate language) which has been recognized by linguists for a long time.
So to put this in perspective: if the african american kids couldn't understand standard-english speaking peers in a casual context, they surely understand the teachers even less, same for textbooks and tests. There really should be "ESL-style" remediation for kids coming from households that speak primarily non-standard english. But like i said, it's such a touchy subject it probably never will be dealt with and meanwhile the kids suffer and grow up disadvantaged.
In fact I'd argue that coming from a non-standard english language background is as much of a disadvantage academically as poverty, single mother households, and so on but it's generally unrecognized.
Not sure you are really grasping what my posts are saying, but no biggie.
We must be talking about the same subject but not connecting, so no, I must not understand your point. Such is life.
As a total aside, if you're ever in Charleston, you should check out Gullah Cuisine on Hwy 17 in Mount Pleasant. The food is phenomenal as is the owner (an authentic Gullah herself). I have no affiliation with the restaurant. Just a fan.
I didn't have many grammar problems for the same reason, but I did live next door to a girl from the country who said ain't a lot. I said it once in front of my mom and she yelled at me. I was in 4th grade myself at the time, but it sure made an impression on me. She'd always say things like, "You sound like white trash!" I wince when I hear people say that word now.
I moved in the middle of 4th grade too, and honestly my new school was the first time I ever had a black teacher. Her name was Mrs. McBride, and she was by far the best teacher I ever had. She was the type to relate personal stories to nearly everything, and we all loved her. Her advice on bullying wouldn't fly in today's anti-bullying world, but it sure would be good advice for kids today - stand up to the bullies, even if they're bigger than you and you get beat up in the process. They'll respect you for it. Of course, that only works with physical bullying, and these days could get you expelled from school or even arrested. In my day it might have got you a couple of hours at the principal's office and maybe a one-day suspension.
After all these years I still recall many of her stories. She was a good instructor as well, but it was her stories that had a profound affect on my life. I only had two teachers in my life I could say that about, and she was one.
My father only used the term "ain't" if he was upset or going on some rant. Other that than, he was a bit of a stickler when it came to grammar. He didn't yell. However, when my sister used the word "ain't", he took a comical approach to it. He basically said she sounded like a "hillbilly". He said it in a half-joking manner.
Having a good teacher does many things. Unfortunately, it is getting harder and harder to be a teacher, and teaching doesn't always attract the best persons to be teachers conversely. I remember going to school and most teachers never recommended fighting back. My father recommended standing up for yourself. He grew up in a rough area and eh learned early you have to stand up for yourself. Otherwise you get walked all over. However, most teachers, even back in the 1990s-early 2000s when I was in public school, wouldn't recommend it.
Now, as for grammar, I still remember thinking of how I spoke versus how many other Black kids would speak. I never understood how I spoke differently from them. I moved again in the 6th grade and went to school with White kids who had atrocious grammar.
Does this mean Republicans will do something to help the black community?
(I doubt it.)
Why do blacks always need help with something yet people coming into this country from another country don't?
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