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It's not just the greedy right but the greedy left who also desires cheap labor but where does that leave regular Americans for job opportunities then? Both outsourcing and illegal immigration is depleting job opportunities for Americans. "Immigrants" send much of their earnings back to their homelands and is benefiting their economies not ours. Illegal aliens in particular use way more of our taxes than they pay in. How about the American Dream for Americans? They are losing that with importing millions of foreigners working on the cheap. Are you really this clueless?
If politicians were acting within the dictates of the Constitution, where it states TWICE at the very beginning:
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
and were not bought out by Corporate and Banking Lobbyists, we would not have this problem.
Corporations should have the freedom to go to China or any other third world country they like, but that does not mean they should have the freedom to sell right back to us if it goes against the general welfare clause of the country. There should be tariffs just like every other country has to protect their economy.
The trade relationship with China is 20/80 because they have tariffs. We buy 4x as much from them as they buy from us. We were told it would create jobs here especially with a consumer base of a billion people in China.
ALL LIES
The only ones that benefited are the parasites on Wall Street and the Executives at the top of the Heap
The Corporate and Banking Lobbyists do not want to have skin in the game nor have personal consequences from the policies they pass on to politicians. No, they just want to reap the benefits from it.
Let them sell their widgets to the Chinese that make a dollar a day and see how that goes
A job is not a right. It's not a benefit or privilege of citizenship. It's a voluntary agreement between an employee and an employer to do some set of tasks for an agreed upon compensation. No more, no less.
I work in the industry most often associated with "they took our jobs", that being IT, and having worked for 4 global, publicly traded corps, it isn't that foreign and H1B workers are given preference, they are often the only people who ever apply. My 3rd global employer put out the word for two BI analyst/developer positions to all the recruiters we used, 3 different job boards and yes, the local papers in the three closest cities to us. Of maybe 50 submitted resumes, one was someone not of Indian or Chinese descent, and that guy was totally unqualified. I've asked the three different recruiters I've worked with in the past if that is employers specifically asking for Asian immigrant employees, or what...and they all said that flat out, they simply don't have that many non-Indian/Chinese people even submit resumes to them.
Point is...they aren't "taking our jobs" or anything, they're simply the only ones applying for them, and most often, the only ones qualified. But truth be told, only one company I've ever worked for had primarily Asian IT folks, and the hiring manager (who was Indian) got investigated by HR for the obvious bias in his hiring and management practices, and was eventually asked to consider employment elsewhere. Yes, even the company I work now has some outsourced development going in Hyderabad, but on a contract basis and only for times where the domestic folks get crunched hard with deadlines.
For the most part, offshore/outsource is for middle managers who don't really get much done, but need the paperwork to look like it's someone else's fault. Offshore resources rock for that. They tend to be cheaper, are not actually there when they get blamed for stuff, and senior execs still buy the excuse about language barriers, distance, etc. Anything higher than basic call support, and the offshored resource is a glorified scapegoat/grunt worker. They're pre-built foxholes for managers to dive into when project management makes the project go over budget and past the deadline. Kill the Indian 10,000 miles away, hire one just like them, announce the awesome management at the next status meeting, lather, rinse, repeat.
And knowing as many of these Indian and Chinese folks as I do, understand that they know this scapegoat game all too well. Hell, professional consultants like Accenture, Deloitte, Tata, Hackett et al...they all pad that contract with scapegoat fees, because that's what they are there for, and everyone knows it. The reason you pay Accenture $3 million to write a proposal that you could write for free in 1/10th the pages is because if anything goes wrong, Accenture gets blamed. All that money wasted is for scapegoat insurance. And that's what offshore talent is there for. It lowers cost but more importantly, it provides convenient excuses and blame targets. It's a big game of doing nothing and not getting found out, and a lot of companies are playing.
Even still, when any of these tech jobs get listed, the submitted resumes read like the Bangalore or Beijing phonebook. Not because the bosses demand it, but because that's who is out there seeking these jobs and are actually qualified.
I assume nothing, I look at the results. Any equation is able to be worked backward as well as foreword.
Every election I see the outcome of peoples ignorance, and their inability to even do what is in their own best interests.
Your indignation is amusing as I am afraid it is you who are doing the majority of the assuming. The proof of the intelligence and the responsibility of the American people is plain to be seen. It asserts itself with every public election. It expresses itself at the lack of public outrage at a government that consistently works against the best interest of the country.
Victims? No not victims, they are accomplices who facilitate the downfall of this country by their ignorance and their failure to exercise their duties as citizens.
They are reaping what they have sowed, as is always the case in life. It is you who are supporting the status quo by ignoring reality.
I agree with every one of your posts so far in this thread.
When more people are willing to sleep outdoors to get Black Friday "bargains" than are willing to go out and vote, it is clear what priorities are in this country.
The citizens of the U.S. have allowed this to happen by buying into all sorts of sound bites - "unions are bad," "the free-market is good/all/everything," "businesses should be allowed to..."
It just goes on.
Meanwhile, we complacently hand over ridiculous amounts of money to educate ourselves and our children and somehow feel privileged for the opportunity to do so.
A job is not a right. It's not a benefit or privilege of citizenship. It's a voluntary agreement between an employee and an employer to do some set of tasks for an agreed upon compensation. No more, no less.
I work in the industry most often associated with "they took our jobs", that being IT, and having worked for 4 global, publicly traded corps, it isn't that foreign and H1B workers are given preference, they are often the only people who ever apply. My 3rd global employer put out the word for two BI analyst/developer positions to all the recruiters we used, 3 different job boards and yes, the local papers in the three closest cities to us. Of maybe 50 submitted resumes, one was someone not of Indian or Chinese descent, and that guy was totally unqualified. I've asked the three different recruiters I've worked with in the past if that is employers specifically asking for Asian immigrant employees, or what...and they all said that flat out, they simply don't have that many non-Indian/Chinese people even submit resumes to them.
Point is...they aren't "taking our jobs" or anything, they're simply the only ones applying for them, and most often, the only ones qualified. But truth be told, only one company I've ever worked for had primarily Asian IT folks, and the hiring manager (who was Indian) got investigated by HR for the obvious bias in his hiring and management practices, and was eventually asked to consider employment elsewhere. Yes, even the company I work now has some outsourced development going in Hyderabad, but on a contract basis and only for times where the domestic folks get crunched hard with deadlines.
For the most part, offshore/outsource is for middle managers who don't really get much done, but need the paperwork to look like it's someone else's fault. Offshore resources rock for that. They tend to be cheaper, are not actually there when they get blamed for stuff, and senior execs still buy the excuse about language barriers, distance, etc. Anything higher than basic call support, and the offshored resource is a glorified scapegoat/grunt worker. They're pre-built foxholes for managers to dive into when project management makes the project go over budget and past the deadline. Kill the Indian 10,000 miles away, hire one just like them, announce the awesome management at the next status meeting, lather, rinse, repeat.
And knowing as many of these Indian and Chinese folks as I do, understand that they know this scapegoat game all too well. Hell, professional consultants like Accenture, Deloitte, Tata, Hackett et al...they all pad that contract with scapegoat fees, because that's what they are there for, and everyone knows it. The reason you pay Accenture $3 million to write a proposal that you could write for free in 1/10th the pages is because if anything goes wrong, Accenture gets blamed. All that money wasted is for scapegoat insurance. And that's what offshore talent is there for. It lowers cost but more importantly, it provides convenient excuses and blame targets. It's a big game of doing nothing and not getting found out, and a lot of companies are playing.
Even still, when any of these tech jobs get listed, the submitted resumes read like the Bangalore or Beijing phonebook. Not because the bosses demand it, but because that's who is out there seeking these jobs and are actually qualified.
I have witnessed businesses hiring illegals over Americans because they can save $5 an hour. Get into the real world not one made up in your mind.
I have witnessed businesses hiring illegals over Americans because they can save $5 an hour. Get into the real world not one made up in your mind.
I live in the real world, and I know plenty of H1B workers.
Plain truth of the matter is that nobody is taking jobs, but rather those jobs are being given away by American workers. That is reality. Even the jobs typically given to illegals. Those used to be jobs for teenagers, part timers and 2nd job "make extra for XMas" workers. And everyone I know who can't find a job and blames it on outsourcing, illegals, whatever are all sadsacks who refuse to get more skills and provide more value.
That's reality.
Americans spend inordinate amounts of time talking about what they deserve, but surprisingly little time doing what's necessary to obtain it.
I'm surrounded by Indians as I sit here typing this. So yes, they're definitely taking our jobs.
They're not any better at IT than we are, for what it's worth. I know. I work alongside them all day long.
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