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America's healthcare system is not "broken." India's -- where the corpses are swept up each morning off the streets of major cities in droves -- is broken. Noting that some smaller, homogenous, often more sparsely populated countries have more efficient healthcare systems than the US should come as a shock -- or an embarrassment -- to no one.
The range of factors involved -- diet, immigration, population density, range of climates, distances, etc. -- are much more complex than a single, relatively limited, study of public health can authoritatively encompass.
I remain unconvinced that this entire thread is little more than another alarmist exercise in America-bashing. The tone of collective outrage which has greeted my dissent, and my insistence that the French heat deaths of 2003 substantially invalidate the report's conclusions, bears this out.
Plus a lot of our deaths are from obesity related diseases and conditions.
There really is no evidence that people who go to doctors and hospitals very often are healthier than those who rarely go.
Some of the healthiest people may have seen a doctor once or twice in 20 years, while someone who goes every month maybe be less healthy. A lot has to do with lifestyle choices.
Plus a lot of our deaths are from obesity related diseases and conditions.
There really is no evidence that people who go to doctors and hospitals very often are healthier than those who rarely go.
Some of the healthiest people may have seen a doctor once or twice in 20 years, while someone who goes every month maybe be less healthy. A lot has to do with lifestyle choices.
sure lifestyle plays a part, but there have been in fact many studies that show that access to affordable health care does play a large part in determining survival rates for people diagnosed with different types of cancer, infant mortality rates, etc. There is a better chance of early detection, and people that have better health care coverage are given better treatment than those who cannot afford it.
Plus a lot of our deaths are from obesity related diseases and conditions.
There really is no evidence that people who go to doctors and hospitals very often are healthier than those who rarely go.
Some of the healthiest people may have seen a doctor once or twice in 20 years, while someone who goes every month maybe be less healthy. A lot has to do with lifestyle choices.
Good points. Americans really are fat and spend a lot of money on health care as a result. Why? Because we can. Our prosperity and position in the world has allowed us to have whatever lifestyles we want. And the rest of the world envies us for that. They hate that we are so dumb and lazy and fat and ignorant...yet we are still the most powerful nation on Earth. Really sucks to be them, I guess.
Good points. Americans really are fat and spend a lot of money on health care as a result. Why? Because we can. Our prosperity and position in the world has allowed us to have whatever lifestyles we want. And the rest of the world envies us for that. They hate that we are so dumb and lazy and fat and ignorant...yet we are still the most powerful nation on Earth. Really sucks to be them, I guess.
I think people spend a lot of money on health care because they are getting gouged by the insurance companies...not because they "can". I spend over $5k annual just for the monthly premiums for my family. Without ever going to a doctor.
And each year, more and more "can't", if they prefer to rather have a roof or food that month. (Even skinny ones) ...God help you if you have high blood pressure or high cholesterol or a disease and you try to get health insurance so you can get treatment. Good luck with that..
I have absolutely no idea where you are trying to go with your second part about fatness and ignorance and envy or what relevance it has at all to the discussion, sorry...
I think people spend a lot of money on health care because they are getting gouged by the insurance companies...not because they "can". I spend over $5k annual just for the monthly premiums for my family. Without ever going to a doctor.
Well, you can do it because you did.
Anyway, I was speaking in generalities here. America is the richest nation on Earth...yes, we spend more on health care, but we also spend more on pretty much everything...because we can, in general.
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And each year, more and more "can't", if they prefer to rather have a roof or food that month. (Even skinny ones) ...God help you if you have high blood pressure or high cholesterol or a disease and you try to get health insurance so you can get treatment. Good luck with that..
Yeah, it is a little crazy, and something needs to be done about it. A return to free market principles would probably help.
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I have absolutely no idea where you are trying to go with your second part about fatness and ignorance and envy or what relevance it has at all to the discussion, sorry...
I think people spend a lot of money on health care because they are getting gouged by the insurance companies...not because they "can". I spend over $5k annual just for the monthly premiums for my family. Without ever going to a doctor.
And each year, more and more "can't", if they prefer to rather have a roof or food that month. (Even skinny ones) ...God help you if you have high blood pressure or high cholesterol or a disease and you try to get health insurance so you can get treatment. Good luck with that..
I have absolutely no idea where you are trying to go with your second part about fatness and ignorance and envy or what relevance it has at all to the discussion, sorry...
I spend far less than that on premiums -- more like $500 annual and have the highest deductible and we don't go to the doctor either.
Plenty of kids grew up and saw a doctor once or twice their entire childhood. And as adults -- many of us almost never go to doctors -- we don't need a doctor to tell us not to eat doughnuts all day long and down them with soft drinks.
For the majority of people -- eating right, exercising enough, maintaining a healthy attitude, avoiding excesses in alcohol and so on -- is all it takes. Of course genetics plays a role -- not everyone obviously can just eat right, exercise and all that to stay healthy -- but it is true for the majority -- good health does not cost a fortune.
Drug and alcohol use, obesity, poor eating habits will lead to early health problems. Actually the French smoke much more than Americans -- I suspect their better health has to do with being less sedentary and eating better.
Yea, I could have gone for the cheapie insurance with the big deductible and copays, but one emergency and my goose would have been cooked. Like my kid who just tore his ACL. Without paying the outrageous premiums for the "good" insurance, I would have had to pony up tens of thousands of dollars for his surgery and rehab.
You can eat right and not smoke and exercise, but that does not protect you from getting into a car accident where you need high cost medical treatment fast.
Play with your numbers all you wish; 600 is still less than 14,000.
Play with your words all you will...they are still nothing more than jingoistic excusification. It's a fact that the US health care system is less effective and less efficient than those in many if not most other developed countries. Real men (and women) are not afraid to confront the fact.
Good points. Americans really are fat and spend a lot of money on health care as a result. Why? Because we can. Our prosperity and position in the world has allowed us to have whatever lifestyles we want. And the rest of the world envies us for that. They hate that we are so dumb and lazy and fat and ignorant...yet we are still the most powerful nation on Earth. Really sucks to be them, I guess.
It's weird to me that it's considered "anti-American socialism" on the right to criticize our healthcare system, government institutions, etc. at the same time that the "Americans are more fat/stupid/irresponsible than people from other countries" argument is so useful for deflecting arguments against said systems/institutions. Why is it anti-American to perceive flaws in the country's policies but pro-American to perceive such grevious flaws in the country's citizens? What is the US, other than the people who live here?
Play with your words all you will...they are still nothing more than jingoistic excusification. It's a fact that the US health care system is less effective and less efficient than those in many if not most other developed countries. Real men (and women) are not afraid to confront the fact.
Nothing in the survey referenced in the OP says a thing about the "effectiveness or efficiency" of any health care system except in one narrow category, to the exclusion of all others, and with no reference whatsoever to any of the numerous mitigating factors to which many participants in this thread have referred. Real men and women might wonder -- with some justification -- exactly what you're playing with as you post such pablum.
Last edited by Yeledaf; 01-12-2008 at 04:46 PM..
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