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I find this study to be hilarious. I know of a person who works in a business that manages emergency rooms worldwide and according to him, the best healthcare ANYWHERE is in the US. Front line person talking here.
I wonder if this study accounted for all the illegals who don't have health insurance here. Probably not and that weighs against us. Then again, the problem is not the healthcare in this country or the availability of it. It is the cost. And costs of healthcare being high are only due to the governments involvement in healthcare. GET THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF HEALTHCARE!!!
I would ask, also, that those who enjoy belittling the American medical profession consider the overwhelming American dominance of the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, and the almost miraculous progress that American research in this field has brought to humanity:
I would ask, also, that those who enjoy belittling the American medical profession consider the overwhelming American dominance of the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, and the almost miraculous progress that American research in this field has brought to humanity:
Surely America has many institutions that provide excellent education and research facilities to produce some of the world's most talented medical professional. We can be proud of these professionals who are on the cutting edge of medical technology.
I don't think anyone on this thread doubts the competence of American medical professionals.
Maybe it's more a question of how the medical professionals are organized and managed to deal with health issues. That would be up to HMOs and various others who are not medical professionals, but do the organizing and managing.
I also view this issue on a personal level; I am one who has no health coverage because it's beyond my financial resources. Probably the only one on this thread without any coverage. If I was ill enough to require medical care I would have no choice but to do the best I can without medical professionals. I have faith in America's medical professionals, but faith will not pay the bills for treatment. Therefore, it makes little difference if the medical professionals are top-notch or medical school drop-outs.
Surely America has many institutions that provide excellent education and research facilities to produce some of the world's most talented medical professional. We can be proud of these professionals who are on the cutting edge of medical technology.
I don't think anyone on this thread doubts the competence of American medical professionals.
Maybe it's more a question of how the medical professionals are organized and managed to deal with health issues. That would be up to HMOs and various others who are not medical professionals, but do the organizing and managing.
I also view this issue on a personal level; I am one who has no health coverage because it's beyond my financial resources. Probably the only one on this thread without any coverage. If I was ill enough to require medical care I would have no choice but to do the best I can without medical professionals. I have faith in America's medical professionals, but faith will not pay the bills for treatment. Therefore, it makes little difference if the medical professionals are top-notch or medical school drop-outs.
If you were ill enough to require medical care, you would receive it. The financial costs incurred would be discounted according to your ability to pay; you might well be responsible to pay for the balance. Surely you do not think that no one without medical insurance receives medical care in the US...part of the reason that medical costs are so high in this country is because physicians and hospitals provide substantial amounts of care gratis to those who do not have insurance. The cost of this free care is borne by those of us who pay insurance premiums.
Nothing in the survey referenced in the OP says a thing about the "effectiveness or efficiency" of any health care system except in one narrow category, to the exclusion of all others...
One narrow category to the exclusion of all others? The study covered nearly one-fourth of ALL deaths in men, and nearly one-third of ALL deaths in women. That goes a little beyond narrow or exclusionary. (The researchers) called such (preventable) deaths an important way to gauge the performance of a country's health care system. But then again, who are they to say...
Last edited by saganista; 01-12-2008 at 06:56 PM..
One narrow category to the exclusion of all others? The study covered nearly one-fourth of ALL deaths in men, and nearly one-third of ALL deaths in women. That goes a little beyond narrow or exclusionary. (The researchers)called such (preventable) deaths an important way to gauge the performance of a country's health care system. But then again, who are they to say...
Selective researchers, perhaps? The fact that they they decided to cap deaths at the age of 75 conveniently eliminated many of the 2003 heat wave deaths in France from consideration.
Besides, the "exclusions" to which I referred related to other factors (demographics, immigration, cultural diversity, geographic dispersion,etc.) which I and other posters have repeatedly mentioned.
The American health care system has long been known for its treatment innovations, but efficiency and cost effectiveness have remained challenges.
-- The Joint Commission
U.S. health care leaders often say that American health care is the best in the world. However, recent studies of medical outcomes and mortality and morbidity statistics suggest that, despite spending more per capita on health care and devoting to it a greater percentage of its national income than any other country, the United States is not getting commensurate value for its money.
-- The Commonwealth Fund
Mayo Clinic Health Policy Center convened more than 30 leaders from across the country at Harvard University to discuss how to improve the effectiveness and efficiency of health care in the United States. The participants recommended a fundamental restructuring of our current delivery and reimbursement systems, with improvements funded by eliminating waste and increasing value.
-- Mayo Clinic Health Policy Center
The lack of a comprehensive health plan leaves almost 20% of the U.S. population without health insurance. Many other individuals are inadequately insured, in a complex array of financing arrangements that result in heavy administrative costs. Because financiers have largely taken over the financing and management of health services, they have become politically potent forces in maintaining the current chaotic, but largely profitable, system. Physicians and patients alike are being held hostage to decisions of for-profit insurers.
-- Richmond and Fein, Science Magazine
An estimated 45 million Americans are currently uninsured and the Institute of Medicine estimates that 18,000 of them die prematurely each year as a result. Health care spending has skyrocketed, with the typical insured family now paying, directly and indirectly, more than one-sixth of its income for health care. Rising costs have not been matched with greater efficiency in the health care system, with preventative care techniques and many proven therapies being under-utilized. Many experts agree that almost any system of universal health coverage would help address the issues of affordability and effectiveness, and would enable the health system to function better by expanding risk pooling and reducing the fragmentation of financing.
-- The Hamilton Project (Brookings Institution)
The American health care system is a study in contradictions. On the one hand, it offers some of the most advanced and effective care in the world. It supports some of the best trained providers and often utilizes some of the most cutting-edge technologies. It treats patients in some of the most advanced clinical settings available. If asked, most Americans would characterize their health care as the best in the world.
On the other hand, such observations do not tell the whole story or reflect the actual state of affairs. In fact, the quality and efficiency of America’s health care is quite low by international standards while the amount of money we spend for these services is quite high—bordering on the exorbitant. Health care spending today consumes 16 percent of the United States Gross Domestic Product (GDP)—a far greater share than in any other industrialized nation. Our costs translate to $5,635 per person per year—53 percent more than the per capita health spending of any other country, and 140 percent more than the mean per capita spending for all industrialized nations. If current trends continue, the United States will spend 21 percent of its GDP on health care by the year 2020.
What do we get for such expenditures? We do not enjoy higher levels of health care quality than our lower spending counterparts in other industrialized nations. American life expectancy is exceeded in 21 other countries. Infant mortality in the United States is the fifth highest of any industrialized country. More cancer cases per 100,000 people are reported in America than in half of industrialized nations. In addition, the United States has the highest obesity rate in the industrialized world.
-- National Governors Association, Center for Best Practices
The American health care system has long been known for its treatment innovations, but efficiency and cost effectiveness have remained challenges.
-- The Joint Commission
U.S. health care leaders often say that American health care is the best in the world. However, recent studies of medical outcomes and mortality and morbidity statistics suggest that, despite spending more per capita on health care and devoting to it a greater percentage of its national income than any other country, the United States is not getting commensurate value for its money.
-- The Commonwealth Fund
Mayo Clinic Health Policy Center convened more than 30 leaders from across the country at Harvard University to discuss how to improve the effectiveness and efficiency of health care in the United States. The participants recommended a fundamental restructuring of our current delivery and reimbursement systems, with improvements funded by eliminating waste and increasing value.
-- Mayo Clinic Health Policy Center
The lack of a comprehensive health plan leaves almost 20% of the U.S. population without health insurance. Many other individuals are inadequately insured, in a complex array of financing arrangements that result in heavy administrative costs. Because financiers have largely taken over the financing and management of health services, they have become politically potent forces in maintaining the current chaotic, but largely profitable, system. Physicians and patients alike are being held hostage to decisions of for-profit insurers.
-- Richmond and Fein, Science Magazine
An estimated 45 million Americans are currently uninsured and the Institute of Medicine estimates that 18,000 of them die prematurely each year as a result. Health care spending has skyrocketed, with the typical insured family now paying, directly and indirectly, more than one-sixth of its income for health care. Rising costs have not been matched with greater efficiency in the health care system, with preventative care techniques and many proven therapies being under-utilized. Many experts agree that almost any system of universal health coverage would help address the issues of affordability and effectiveness, and would enable the health system to function better by expanding risk pooling and reducing the fragmentation of financing.
-- The Hamilton Project (Brookings Institution)
The American health care system is a study in contradictions. On the one hand, it offers some of the most advanced and effective care in the world. It supports some of the best trained providers and often utilizes some of the most cutting-edge technologies. It treats patients in some of the most advanced clinical settings available. If asked, most Americans would characterize their health care as the best in the world.
On the other hand, such observations do not tell the whole story or reflect the actual state of affairs. In fact, the quality and efficiency of America’s health care is quite low by international standards while the amount of money we spend for these services is quite high—bordering on the exorbitant. Health care spending today consumes 16 percent of the United States Gross Domestic Product (GDP)—a far greater share than in any other industrialized nation. Our costs translate to $5,635 per person per year—53 percent more than the per capita health spending of any other country, and 140 percent more than the mean per capita spending for all industrialized nations. If current trends continue, the United States will spend 21 percent of its GDP on health care by the year 2020.
What do we get for such expenditures? We do not enjoy higher levels of health care quality than our lower spending counterparts in other industrialized nations. American life expectancy is exceeded in 21 other countries. Infant mortality in the United States is the fifth highest of any industrialized country. More cancer cases per 100,000 people are reported in America than in half of industrialized nations. In addition, the United States has the highest obesity rate in the industrialized world.
-- National Governors Association, Center for Best Practices
None of these carefully culled criticisms are relevant to the topic; all ignore the factors to which several posters have referred in this thread; and I am confident that the vast majority of people on this forum, not excluding you, are satisfied -- indeed grateful -- for the level of care they receive in the US...
I repeat: ranking France first in a two-year study of preventable deaths, while excluding the massive deaths resulting from the 2003 heat wave debacle in that country, suggests that the study cited in the OP should be viewed with skepticism, and that it and similar criticisms of the US public health system may be motivated as much for political reasons as for any others.
well i guess that sums it up. Your friend obviously knows far more than the world health organization.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9
I find this study to be hilarious. I know of a person who works in a business that manages emergency rooms worldwide and according to him, the best healthcare ANYWHERE is in the US. Front line person talking here.
I wonder if this study accounted for all the illegals who don't have health insurance here. Probably not and that weighs against us. Then again, the problem is not the healthcare in this country or the availability of it. It is the cost. And costs of healthcare being high are only due to the governments involvement in healthcare. GET THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF HEALTHCARE!!!
None of these carefully culled criticisms are relevant to the topic...
Actually, they go to the very same point as the OP, namely the fact that the US health care system is less effective and less efficient than those in many if not most other developed countries. As your characterization of the OP as having been with regard to a single, solitary, and narrow study suggested that you were laboring under a rather considerable misconception on the matter, I thought you might benefit from having your consciousness broadened a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf
I am confident that the vast majority of people on this forum, not excluding you, are satisfied -- indeed grateful -- for the level of care they receive in the US.
This is one of the many places where you and I part ways. I am not content with consideration of my own needs alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf
I repeat: ranking France first in a two-year study of preventable deaths, while excluding the massive deaths resulting from the 2003 heat wave debacle in that country, suggests that the study cited in the OP should be viewed with skepticism...
Well, fine. As silly as your argument is, let's penalize France by moving them down to 12th. Now Japan is 1st. The US is still 19th.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf
...and that it and similar criticisms of the US public health system may be motivated as much for political reasons as for any others.
Ah yes...the Bush Derangement Syndrome argument. Any argument based on facts that the faithful cannot defend against must have had its origins in a dark and pathological political bias against The Man and His Message. It is therefore to be disregarded out of hand. Powerful medicine, that...
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