Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-08-2008, 03:32 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,708,287 times
Reputation: 199

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
France got blindsided by the heatwave but unlike the US they learned from their mistakes. They subsidized air conditioners for the elderly, installed public water fountains to be used in heat waves, and so on.

I lived in Europe for 4 years and you have to understand... not even the cars have AC. It is very rare and considered a luxury, heat waves are freakish things when they happen. Most people in Europe can deal with cold and rain more than they can heat.

BTW, hundreds of people die every summer in the US in the heat waves we have. It just doesn't make national news.
Ah, so they instituted more socialist programs? So the answer is more government spending, instead of having people take responsibility for their own safety and well-being? Just like it is the government's job to make sure I practice preventive health measures?

How about I take responsibility for my own health? If it's hot, I get a air conditioner. If I smoke, I stop smoking. If I'm overweight, I diet. Is that too radical an ideas these days? Why is it the government's job to keep me healthy?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-08-2008, 03:55 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,780,739 times
Reputation: 9283
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Ah, so they instituted more socialist programs? So the answer is more government spending, instead of having people take responsibility for their own safety and well-being? Just like it is the government's job to make sure I practice preventive health measures?

How about I take responsibility for my own health? If it's hot, I get a air conditioner. If I smoke, I stop smoking. If I'm overweight, I diet. Is that too radical an ideas these days? Why is it the government's job to keep me healthy?
Sooner or later there will be socialized gastric bypasses... why put you through the pain of dieting when dieting doesn't work, lets just give everyone free gastric bypasses... socialized cosmetic surgery, cause everyone should look pretty... it is unconscionable that we not let people look good with big boobs, facelifts, and liposuction... why should the rich get these benefits.. the poor deserve them and they deserve it now.. they are hurting so bad, how many times must a poor person be rejected by a good looking person, have we no shame to give them free cosmetic surgery to fix that nose... you are too mean and so individualistic.. can't you think of other people... if I must, I will make the government take a part of your pay to fund free cosmetic surgery for every poor ugly person.. the HOMELESS included.. they need it most.. by the way I was being sarcastic in case you couldn't tell. You can never tell when a socialist will take it seriously..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2008, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,408 posts, read 7,779,474 times
Reputation: 1198
Heh, heh. Hold on, I'm rolling, can't breathe...just a sec...ok, ok...

Just to try to get back to some relevant discussion.

Here is another report from a year ago. US is second worst in the world for developed nations- behind only Latvia - for highest infant death rates. We are tied with Poland, Slovakia and a couple others.

American babies are three times more likely to die in their first month as children born in Japan, and newborn mortality is 2.5 times higher in the United States than in Finland, Iceland or Norway, Save the Children researchers found.

CNN.com - U.S. has second worst newborn death rate in modern world, report says - May 10, 2006
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2008, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,150,337 times
Reputation: 6958
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Ah, so they instituted more socialist programs? So the answer is more government spending, instead of having people take responsibility for their own safety and well-being? Just like it is the government's job to make sure I practice preventive health measures?

How about I take responsibility for my own health? If it's hot, I get a air conditioner. If I smoke, I stop smoking. If I'm overweight, I diet. Is that too radical an ideas these days? Why is it the government's job to keep me healthy?
Good points. What to do if one has a job that is a health hazard? Not everyone has the money for an air-conditioner or can afford the extra electrical cost. What would you do if you had a heart attack...stop having one? Or stricken by Alzheimers...just stop getting any more Alzheimers?
If it's not the government's job to make sure everyone practices preventive health measures why is marijuana illegal? Suddenly, the government is concerned about the health effect on the citizens? In the matter of sexual behavior, why is it the government's concern to promote abstinence only?
When giving some thought to policies one can see that the government could give a rat's butt about the health of it's citizens. That's obvious.
Why does the government butt in certain times and ignore at other times?
The government's job is to ensure that large employers get all the aces dealt to them from each deck, that the Status Quo continues unhindered.

Last edited by Visvaldis; 01-08-2008 at 04:33 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2008, 04:46 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,708,287 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Good points. What to do if one has a job that is a health hazard? Not everyone has the money for an air-conditioner or can afford the extra electrical cost. What would you do if you had a heart attack...stop having one? Or stricken by Alzheimers...just stop getting any more Alzheimers?
If it's not the government's job to make sure everyone practices preventive health measures why is marijuana illegal? Suddenly, the government is concerned about the health effect on the citizens? In the matter of sexual behavior, why is it the government's concern to promote abstinence only?
When giving some thought to policies one can see that the government could give a rat's butt about the health of it's citizens. That's obvious.
Why does the government butt in certain times and ignore at other times?
The government's job is to ensure that large employers get all the aces dealt to them from each deck, that the Status Quo continues unhindered.
The job of the government should be to ensure that I don't harm you and you don't harm me. Me harming myself? That's my business. I don't support the War on Drugs any more than I support the War on Poverty. I don't think it's the government's job to tell me how or with whom I should have sex. I don't think it's the government's job to decide what I can put in my body.

As for your specific examples, if I have a heart attack, most likely I have led a life that included a lot of bad habits that contributed to my heart disease. I am still responsible. Other diseases may not be an individual's fault (there are no behavioral risks associated with childhood cancer, for example), but it's not my fault either, so why should the government take money away from me to pay for your disease?

On a slightly related topic, we spend more money on AIDS research than either cancer or Alhzeimers...why? AIDS is 99.99% preventable through behavior modification. In other words, if you catch HIV these days, it's because you did something stupid. On the other hand, a lot of cancers and Alhzeimers have little or nothing to do with behavior. There are also far more Americans suffering from those two diseases than of AIDS. Can anyone explain that one to me?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2008, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,167,491 times
Reputation: 6551
Hmmm the Gov in charge of my health. How is the feds health? Who to listen too? It seems that the gov has a talent for attracting the least qualified on any given topic.
No I dont want my tax dollars spent on airconditioners. Lets instead remove all a/c units from Gov offices and redistribute them. Makes just about as much sense.
Instead lets allow people to be accountable for themselves. An airconditioner goes for about 200 bucks. 4 months cable bill.... Or 200 lottery tickets. Ever stand in line at a convience store? I have, and its not the young working class buying $50 worth of tickets. While standing in line you get to hear about how stingy the gov is, can't afford prescriptions . They then order the $50 worth of lottery tickets and a pack of camal no filters.
Some are desperately poor no doubt about it. Many are just stupid with their money.
Oh wait the Katrina victims were victims of a callous Fed gov and not their own stupidity for living in a flood zone below sea level.
Debunking the Myths of Hurricane Katrina: Special Report - Popular Mechanics
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2008, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,264,523 times
Reputation: 15285
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Heh, heh. Hold on, I'm rolling, can't breathe...just a sec...ok, ok...

Just to try to get back to some relevant discussion.

Here is another report from a year ago. US is second worst in the world for developed nations- behind only Latvia - for highest infant death rates. We are tied with Poland, Slovakia and a couple others.

American babies are three times more likely to die in their first month as children born in Japan, and newborn mortality is 2.5 times higher in the United States than in Finland, Iceland or Norway, Save the Children researchers found.

CNN.com - U.S. has second worst newborn death rate in modern world, report says - May 10, 2006
Given the factors I cited above regarding geography and demographics, none of these figures is particularly surprising. What is surprising is that any thinking person can with a straight face compare two societies as dissimilar as, say, Japan and the US, or fail to note that, for examople, the entire collective population of Finland, Iceland, and Norway is less than that of New York City.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2008, 07:09 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,406,452 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Statistics, please of any public health disaster which remotely aproaches France's summer of 2003?
Look into the Lancet/Hopkins study on Iraq's Summer of 2003...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2008, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,264,523 times
Reputation: 15285
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Look into the Lancet/Hopkins study on Iraq's Summer of 2003...
Any public health disaster in the United States. That was the obvious implied comparison...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2008, 08:03 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,406,452 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Any public health disaster in the United States. That was the obvious implied comparison...
Ah, I see. Somewhere between 600 and 700 people died from heat-related causes in the Chicago heatwave of July 1995. Air conditioning is common in Chicago. Half of Chicago doctors are not scheduled for holiday in July. The heat wave in Chicago lasted five days. The heatwave in France lasted nine days. The population of France is about 22.5 times that of Chicago. Had the Chicago heatwave gone on as long as the French heatwave did and affected as large a population, more that 25,000 people would have died. What was that number for France again? Did I see 14,802 back there somewhere?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:56 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top