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Would of, could of, should of. This meme is about like a Snuffy Smith, saying, "Helll no, we ain't fergittin." It's over, done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss
Right to work= The right to earn less and to have less benefits. The right to give away leverage in contracts before a contract is made. The right to give away a bargaining chip before you start in talks. Yes it hurts groups as well as individuals.
Obviously, Mircea, you, too, quite passionately don't believe in the principles of democracy. Unions in states without Right to Work were never welcomed in a workplace, unless the majority of the workers agreed through a majority vote that it was right for them to allow a union to come in there and deduct money from every worker paycheck, whether they wished to become union members, or not. If those workers were to later change their minds and don't like that arrangement, then they're free to exercise the principles of democracy again and vote the damned union out of there.
Then Mircea replied & provided a quote however without a link to its author. Perhaps he is the author? Perhaps we'll never know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
No kidding.
Democracy does not trump the 1st Amendment.
I'm a Platonic Conservative:
Here is the quote Mircea provided:
Quote:
Every form of government tends to perish by excess of its basic principle.
Aristocracy ruins itself by limiting too narrowly the circle within which power is confined; oligarchy ruins itself by the incautious scramble for immediate wealth. In either case the end is revolution. When revolution comes it may seem to arise from little causes and petty whims; but though it may spring from slight occasions it is the precipitate result of grave and accumulated wrongs; when a body is weakened by neglected ills, the merest exposure may bring serious disease. "Then democracy comes: the poor overcome their opponents, slaughtering some and banishing the rest; and give to the people an equal share of freedom and power".
But even democracy ruins itself by excess–of democracy.
Its basic principle is the equal right of all to hold office and determine public policy. This is at first glance a delightful arrangement; it becomes disastrous because the people are not properly equipped by education to select the best rulers and the wisest courses. "As to the people they have no understanding, and only repeat what their rulers are pleased to tell them" (Protagoras, 317); to get a doctrine accepted or rejected it is only necessary to have it praised or ridiculed in a popular play (a hit, no doubt, at Aristophanes, whose comedies attacked almost every new idea). Mob-rule is a rough sea for the ship of state to ride; every wind of oratory stirs up the waters and deflects the course. The upshot of such a democracy is tyranny or autocracy; the crowd so loves flattery, it is so "hungry for honey," that at last the wiliest and most unscrupulous flatterer, calling himself the "protector of the people" rises to supreme power.
& here is the part where Mircea does his infamous (& very mature) name-calling schtick & seems to be making a case for a return to Aristocracy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Uh-huh....and the workers are qualified to make such decisions?
The information presented was truthful and accurate, without fallacies?
Why do all of you union pukes keep ignoring that?
...
Let me preface this by saying, I did not write the following! I cannot provide a link because I'm quoting from a book I have propped up on my lap. However I will provide the page numbers:
Quote:
The democratic process obviously could not exist unless it were self-limiting, that is, unless it limited itself to decisions that did not destroy the conditions necessary to its own existence. (p154)
The substantive right or good is external to the democratic process but necessary to it. By "external" I mean that it is not a part of the conception of the process itself, yet it is essential to the proper functioning of the process. For example, from Aristotle onward political theorists have recognized that the function of democratic processes will be impaired if citizens are vastly unequal in economic means or in other crucial resources. (p.167)
-Robert A. Dahl, Democracy & Its Critics, 1989
Mircea? I think StillwaterTownie was correct in assuming you (passionately) don't believe in the principles of democracy. (by the way, why all the drama? between that & the name-calling? sheeesh)
Why not proclaim the form of government you DO passionately, emotionally, ... believe in?
As for me, I like a democracy. Personally, I like mine with consideration of the substantive or common good, along with a mixed economy ...
By the way, I didn't write the following either, & I don't know its author? I like it. It makes sense to me.
Quote:
Democracy is like sex - it works best when you participate.
-Anonymous (posted on a sign in a store on East 19th St,. Manhattan
I retired about a year and a half ago and it only took me that long to be bored enough to be elected to my condominium board of directors and the town budget committee. It has been interesting serving on this boards. I am wondering about continuing in politics. Our government need a good dose of common sense instead of ideological purity.
If you are really concerned with politics stop complaining and get involved.
I can't help it, if you absolutely refuse to comprehend that labor unions can't operate free of charge. Or that if they are not doing a good job for the workers after taking money from them that the workers have the right to kick them out.
You are right, they cannot operate for free, I never said that, if I did show me and I'll remove this post.
Now, as for kicking the union out, that has to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard.
Here is your scenario, you have 50 workers the top 40 are seniority, the bottom 10 feel like they are getting **** on, the bring up the vote you speak of, to remove the union, the top 40 vote to keep the union, the bottom 10 vote to remove the union.
What do you think the outcome is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie
And I'm on no record of supporting a teacher who sexually molested a child.
You support a union, you support sexually molesting children.
You support those people not being fired because of the UNION, the UNION is keeping their jobs, not them. So, you support union, you support everything they do.
You are right, they cannot operate for free, I never said that, if I did show me and I'll remove this post.
Now, as for kicking the union out, that has to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard.
Here is your scenario, you have 50 workers the top 40 are seniority, the bottom 10 feel like they are getting **** on, the bring up the vote you speak of, to remove the union, the top 40 vote to keep the union, the bottom 10 vote to remove the union.
What do you think the outcome is?
You support a union, you support sexually molesting children.
You support those people not being fired because of the UNION, the UNION is keeping their jobs, not them. So, you support union, you support everything they do.
The outcome in the scenario is little different than in a town where 80% of the people voted to raise the sales tax, while 20% voted against it. So you have 20% of the people who are very unhappy, because they are forced to pay higher sales taxes. The solution? Like the unhappy workers, who can move to another workplace without forced union dues, the unhappy townspeople can move to another town where taxes are lower.
I'm not in a teachers union and would not support keeping teachers who sexually molest students. Your logic in saying I would do so, otherwise, is insulting and beyond the height of absurdity.
What's more amazing is that you both call freeloaders people who are trying to make something of themselves....yet you support teacher who have SEXUALLY molested children, yet they still have a job, why you ask, because of the union they are in....
Once again, I wouldn't support such teacher keeping job under such disgusting circumstances. So cite a case story, where a teacher was actually allowed to continuing working after being convicted of having sex with a child.
The outcome in the scenario is little different than in a town where 80% of the people voted to raise the sales tax, while 20% voted against it. So you have 20% of the people who are very unhappy, because they are forced to pay higher sales taxes. The solution? Like the unhappy workers, who can move to another workplace without forced union dues, the unhappy townspeople can move to another town where taxes are lower.
I'm not in a teachers union and would not support keeping teachers who sexually molest students. Your logic in saying I would do so, otherwise, is insulting and beyond the height of absurdity.
So the union people who do nothing and are happy, get their way.....congrats....
A union is a union is a union....
You can get away with most anything and NOT get fired....child molestation, smoking dope, what ever it may be, you support it and it does not matter what union it is....it's a union......
Once again, I wouldn't support such teacher keeping job under such disgusting circumstances. So cite a case story, where a teacher was actually allowed to continuing working after being convicted of having sex with a child.
Here are 700 instances.....they are working, well, they are doing nothing but hey, they are still getting paid, WHhhhhhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy you ask, they are in a union....
Hundreds of New York City public school teachers accused of offenses ranging from insubordination to sexual misconduct are being paid their full salaries to sit around all day playing Scrabble, surfing the Internet or just staring at the wall, if that's what they want to do.
Right to work = the right to earn less and to have less benefits. It is being pushed by a non-profit which does not disclose its donors. The type the hard right and Corps. love to use to fulfill its agenda.
Unions are supported by it members only.
The right to give up a bargaining chip when negotiating by a group or an individual.
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