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I'm not stuck on education. It's you H1-B cheerleaders who keep bringing it up.
You mention "1950s work ethic". Yet, at the same time, you H1-B cheerleaders have no problems dumping older, experienced Americans who keep their skills up to date in favor of young H1-Bs. We all know why that is---you can pay the H1-B a lot less money.
Yep. The kind thing to do is have employees train on new programs (if that's the case) and fire if they refuse to learn, and replace with someone willing to learn. That's not happening, what is happening are workers having to train non American workers. Not fine and very anti American. I'd rather hire Americans first because this is our country. I don't want people from other countries stealing our jobs. If it was a case of non Americans receiving jobs because they have an unique skill set that would be different. It's not, it's a case of Americans who can do the job losing it to these workers. It's not just IT, it's science, and engineers, and lawyers and the educated jobs. I know many skilled workers who can't work in the field they trained in. I met a Ph.D with a degree in some biological physicist field who's been unemployed in years. I know quite a few with master's degree who are working minimum wage or semi skilled jobs. It's to the point that fast food management now requires a bachelors degree (and I've even seen them request a MBA). Why should a qualified worker work at a job they are overqualified for because a foreigner stole their job? These foreign workers don't assimilate, they often bring terrible views on women and other races and cause issues. I was reading months ago about a sex offender who was on a H1-B visa who molested another worker. These visas aren't screened and nope I don't want sex offenders here. Look at India and how women are treated there and they bring this here? I was offended I was only offered a minimum wage job then they had the nerve to ask if I had kids or smoked because they only hire thin, childless smokers. I don't have kids, smoke and am not overweight and this offended me because it is illegal!
I would hire an American. It seems to me that the ones with advanced degrees would be overqualified. The fact that you got Americans applying tells me that we don't need H1-Bs.
No it means that the Americans applying believed they had the skills (or believed they had the ability to dissemble enough to convince someone they had the skills) to do the job.
A Janitor can apply for a position as the head of Research at JPL, it doesn't mean he's qualified.
Look Job ads can't cover all the criteria necessary for a position you're hiring for here is some of the criteria I'd want for certain projects I've worked on.
I want people who can write and debug genetic algorithms in C/C++, who understand Aspect Oriented Programming, who can do on the fly V_TABLE redirects based on the context of data being passed to a function (without tripping OS function security) and also know this can't be solved using simple polymorphism (it cannot in the specific context I'm discussing, that was a failed solution, as was a common function with conditional context switcher).
I want people who can look at structured data and know or figure out an algorithm to reach the desired value in the shortest possible time.
I want them to give me the deliverables on the specified date, I don't want them to pad estimates to achieve that date either (No Star Trek Scotty estimates).
I want them to be smart and problem solving, I want people who know what Cheryls Birthday is without cheating.
I want someone who in 5 years knows all that technical stuff and a whole bunch more, so that I can throw them into developing a video game engine and they'll succeed, or I can throw them into a data mining project and they'll succeed adapt and exceed expectations. Yet they've not neglected any of the non-technical aspects of their role and they've grown in those areas too.
I want someone who I can tell them what I want, and why I want it and they'll provide the optimal solution in the minimum time, and be able to trust them to deliver it.
I want people who are aware that I really don't care how you do something (as long as it's legal) but that you'll deliver on time, yes you can show up 1 day a week for 1 hour while you're meeting your deliverables, but if you need to work 24x7 for a month to achieve one or more deliverable I expect that too, and no I don't care that your mom and dad's Gold wedding anniversary in Aspen is the same week you need to deliver, you set your delivery date not I.
I want someone who when I open the door to their new office with a bunch of hardware in there and no manual gets a big grin on their face sits down and starts figuring it all out for themselves.
I want someone who can write a self replicating virus to co-opt corporate desktops to apply test load to a test environment when they try to go into powersave mode or screensaver (and not get caught doing it by NetSec, and not replicate in the wild outside of the company).
I want people can not only take on big challenges, but revel in them.
I want them to be able to manage both their time and the time of other people effectively, who can manage both their manager and any direct reports so that any project will not fail due to a failure of management, and speak to CEO's and company Chairman and not get stuck in the weeds, or get overawed, and show enough technical prowess that the CEO or Chairman feels confident that the person is going to not just achieve but overachieve.
Do I want the impossible? Yes! just that short list of things I know of nobody (self included) who can specifically match all of those criteria. If I put out a job ad like that no one would apply, and all of those things are not equally important. So when I've advertized for jobs I've listed the critical aspects of the job, and the high priority aspects and lower are not mentioned, that can be determined during an interview loop. Even if it were possible and I got the ideal candidate, the next candidate would not be a clone of that job description, I already have someone who can do all those things, now I need someone who can do a bunch of different things, and some things that are common.
I want someone who when I open the door to their new office with a bunch of hardware in there and no manual gets a big grin on their face sits down and starts figuring it all out for themselves.
LOL..that comment brought back so many memories for me.
We used to call that "bleeding edge" when there was no documentation.
I was on a project where we did bring-up work on new hardware. We got early prototype motherboards with lots of wires that sat in what looked like a holding cradle.
Anytime someone got something new, all of us crowded in their office to check it out.
I was with that group for 5 years. I loved that job.
Be assured the folks that own most of the wealth will not let us vote away their profits. If hiring barely qualified individuals that will attempt to do the job at half the cost of an American that can actually do the job the guy from Outer Mongolia had better get ready to move. So should the American that can no longer pay his mortgage.
gungir---What is very clear from reading your posts is that you disparage Americans and bend over backwards to make excuses to hire H1-Bs.
I find it all to be very, very sad.
We simply don't need H1-Bs and did just fine before the visa program was created. If it wasn't created, we still would be doing fine.
This program simply gives employers excuses to not hire Americans. At one time, employers would help Americans relocate, instead of ranting about relocation expenses being an "entitlement". You ignored it when I said an employee could sign a contract saying something to the effect that s/he has to hold the job for X amount of years in exchange for relocation help. If s/he leaves before then, s/he owes the company for the expenses. What's so hard about that? Yet you have no problem about paying an H1-Bs' airfare.
Sometimes, employers will send a promising employee to school to learn how to do IT work. Why do that now when they can just hire cheap H1-Bs?
It also gives employers an excuse to not offer training or help to an American who has been out of work for so long that his/her skills have gone rusty. Or sending an employee to classes. At one time, employers were willing to do that.
You, instead blame those who have been out of work for not taking classes to keep up their skills. Since you've never been unemployed, you don't realize that many people have to go through their savings to keep afloat. You know, things like keeping their house from getting into foreclosure, as that would kill their credit rating. Spending thousands to take classes is impossible for them when they are just trying to survive day to day.
We all know what a scam the H1-B visa program has become. An employer doesn't want to hire Americans, so ads are put in obscure publications with false job descriptions. A job, for example, is advertised as a junior software engineer when, the description is actually for a senior. On and on it goes. Even worse, so many Indians who came here on H1-Bs and now have green cards and do company hiring, blatantly discriminate against non-Indians.
It's bad enough that Americans are losing out to H1-Bs. However, what is even worse is that there are people who disparage Americans and become cheerleaders for displacing them with H1-Bs.
gungir---What is very clear from reading your posts is that you disparage Americans and bend over backwards to make excuses to hire H1-Bs.
No it's not clear, I do not disparage Americans who are not deserving of disparagement, I only disparage the worthy of disparagement. I'm not making any excuses for anyone for or against.
Can you point to any specific point I've made where I bend over backwards to make excuses to hire H-1B's?
Like I said I don't cut people a break from their indiscretions because of their nationality, and you are discussing how Americans are better in all aspects. So clearly any response you get is going to focus on the common issues I've seen from all nationalities, but applied to Americans, who, because they're common, are going to display those same common issues.
The reality is that Americans are not better intrinsically than Indians, or Chinese, or Japanese, or Brits, or the French, or Germans, or Danes, or Swedes, or Aussies, or South Africans in Software/IT, and I've been disparaging slobbering knuckledraggers, idiots, and morons of all regions from the get go.
More pertinently can you tell me, from honestly the list of characteristics I presented, do you know anyone who meets those criteria? American, or even on this planet?
If not then the point is made, even with qualification most of the actual necessary characteristics are not promoted within the qualification. You could be graduating 320M people from Universities, and there still would be a shortage of people who meet those criteria. Now if I had two or more applicants who were more or less equal in all aspects I'd hire the American because I don't have to mess with USCIS, but if I don't have two applicants that are equal then I'll hire the one with the closer skill set to what I'm looking for regardless of their nationality, or do another search.
However as many people have said, the rare nature of the skills I would be looking for would be better served through tribal knowledge and headhunting. I know two people who have most of the skillset needed in that job description who work at Microsoft, two work at Google, there's one more at Apple, and several who are now running their own businesses, and to be quite honest I couldn't care what their immigration status is. The software world in the top leagues is pretty small, you know someone who knows someone and you can cover around 90% of the people you need to know in those leagues. It's small for a reason, that reason is that the people who are needed share rare combinations of characteristics that are not entirely related to their fields of applications.
Why list all those requirements when you admit that no one possesses all of them? What's the point? You do bend over backwards to defend H1-Bs, in each and every post. You seem to think that they are superior to Americans and are determined in each and every post to put down Americans. You called Americans "entitled" for wanting help relocating or help getting up to speed. Yet you defend experienced Americans getting replaced by H1-B "freshers". If you don't feel that way, then why go to great lengths post after post defending the whole H1-B program, despite the amount of fraud and corruption that exists?
If anything, you present a good argument as to why the whole H1-B visa program needs to be scrapped and in its place put a visa program that only allows for a small number of visas. The fees need to be increased to the point where companies would realize that it would be cheaper to either relocate an experienced American or help get those who have been unemployed for so long that their skills went rusty get up to speed. To sweeten the pot, give them tax breaks for each American hired. If it becomes very expensive to bring in H1-Bs, companies and cheaper to hire Americans (getting tax breaks for doing so), companies would only turn to the program when they've truly exhausted all options.
Otherwise, we get people who deliberately pass over Americans in favor of H1-Bs by gaming the system, taking advantage of gaping loopholes. That's simply not acceptable---especially when we have thousands of experienced American citizen IT workers who are unemployed.
We, as a nation, need to reduce legal immigration as we can't keep taking in 1 million legal immigrants per year as it strains natural resources. Slow down legal immigration and send illegals packing.
Why list all those requirements when you admit that no one possesses all of them? What's the point?
If anything, you present a good argument as to why the whole H1-B visa program needs to be scrapped and in its place put a visa program that only allows for a small number of visas. The fees need to be increased to the point where companies would realize that it would be cheaper to either relocate an experienced American or help get those who have been unemployed for so long that their skills went rusty get up to speed. To sweeten the pot, give them tax breaks for each American hired.
Otherwise, we get people who deliberately pass over Americans in favor of H1-Bs by gaming the system, taking advantage of gaping loopholes. That's simply not acceptable---especially when we have thousands of experienced American citizen IT workers who are unemployed.
We, as a nation, need to reduce legal immigration as we can't keep taking in 1 million legal immigrants per year as it strains natural resources. Slow down legal immigration and send illegals packing.
The IT companies are not welfare providers. They want to compete with European, Indian and Chinese companies too. If you don't take the smartest people, Europe, India, and China will.
The IT companies are not welfare providers. They want to compete with European, Indian and Chinese companies too. If you don't take the smartest people, Europe, India, and China will.
...and just how many of these 'smartest' people do you need per year in the US?
A lot of these arguments are at cross purposes. One person will see only 100k mediocrities, the other will see 100 top of the food chain professionals.
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