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Interesting...
I dont think one proponent could actually honestly answer my questions... so..the thread moves...
Really? Well, I have seen nothing except good arguments to your claims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
Providing legality and holding up two countries where the murder rate is out of control because of in part of narco terrorism as an argunent for how good mj is not an example you might want to use
You cannot deny that the high drug crime and murder rate south of the border is caused by huge profits created by high American demand. I think you have already agreed with that. What myself and many others have been trying to get through your head is that the high demand is caused by the BLACK MARKET. Remove that demand, and the drug crimes south of the border will subside.
If you do not agree with me so far, please say why.
So now the question becomes how to remove that demand. Well, why not look at alcohol regulations? After all, no one disputes the fact that we don't have alcohol wars south of the border, right? That is because there is NO DEMAND for black market alcohol.
If you do not agree with me so far, please explain why.
So, let's do the logical thing and regulate cannabis the same way we do alcohol.
Is that not logical to you? If not, please explain why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
So... some more simple questions...let's localize it some more... so it will be easier for some to digest...
Destructive...
Does anyone here believe mj production has not harmed California... damaged mother earth...
Surely you don't believe it is legal growers and "granny 12-plant" growers that has caused the destruction you've seen to the Earth, right? The destruction you refer to is done by guerilla growers that are operating to supply the huge BLACK MARKET demand. So it has the same solution as the drug wars south of the border: REMOVE THE BLACK MARKET DEMAND.
If you do not agree with this, please explain why.
As far as proper cannabis (or hemp) cultivation, done on a large scale, it is just a crop, like any other crop. Farmers have been growing crops on a large scale for quite a while now without managing to destroy our mother Earth, what makes you think growing cannabis is any different?
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
created an underclass of stoners?
The stoners you see, that you consider an underclass, are only the visible surface. This visible surface is composed mostly of the types you are likely to come into contact with, the asshats in other words. Underneath that visible surface are the millions of responsible, non-asshat users, like myself. The manner in which I conduct my life is one that causes my chances of interacting with LEOs to be almost nil.
So how can you possibly judge how many responsible users there are out there for each one of the asshats you come into contact with?
I believe not being able to answer that last question explains why you think you need laws, like the prohibition of cannabis, to help you reel-in those asshats, while at the same time not realizing the immense amount of harm prohibition is causing.
You've jumped all over the argument. You might as well just have a "I don't like marijuana thread" or a "Negative effects of marijuana thread."
Don't act like your making a point or updating us on some current events when your not. Your simply ranting about how marijuana should be illegal.
The CNN article was current as of today... does that make it a current event
Damage from mj use and production is on going... and current
Is that current enough?
Thanks coneygirl... you're getting part of picture
Will local mj violence decrease if legalization occurred ...
I think so... but...what will the residual effect be... we are "legal" now... anyone can get script.. denials of script stats aren't even kept
Like south america its all about the money ... money and drugs = crime
So... what would you give up for unfettered access to your drug..in this case mj
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
The CNN article was current as of today... does that make it a current event
Damage from mj use and production is on going... and current
Is that current enough?
Thanks coneygirl... you're getting part of picture
Will local mj violence decrease if legalization occurred ...
I think so... but...what will the residual effect be... we are "legal" now... anyone can get script.. denials of script stats aren't even kept
Like south america its all about the money ... money and drugs = crime
So... what would you give up for unfettered access to your drug..in this case mj
Food
Food stamps
Welfare
Work opportunities
Living opportunities?
Should marijuana users be a protected class?
Any of the above ?
Again, I dont have a drug - maybe ice cream. *shrugs*
YOUR MJ needs to remain illegal because none of the above doesnt already exist? YOUR illegal MJ needs to remain that way so we can keep putting young people in jails, and ruining their lives forever, and reducing them to nothing more than maybe someone's babies daddy (of any race)?
Would anyone need food stamps if they could get a liveable wage and sustainable employment?
Would farmers here in the US need to give up their centuries old farms because continuing to run them is no longer cost effective given how little we pay for imported foods?
Living opportunities, for the unemployed?
Are prescription drug users a protected class these days?
Would elderly people be worried about Social Security not being there one day if something could revitalize our economy here?
Didnt our current President run on a platform of legalization nationwide and win - or do you think a majority white country simply wanted to get that 'white guilt' off their chests, and really paid no attention to his platform at all?
Do you know that the marijuana tax stamp was made and its inability to not be used was designed purposefully as a racist way to keep Mexicans at bay? You have to have a dealers lisence, which you cant get to get the stamp. But, you cant legally bring the product into the country to get the stamp, even if you managed to get the liscense.
Do you see any shortage of Mexicans or other more southern peoples anywhere in the US today?
On the subject of Sex fiends -
It should be determined, for instance, to what extent the recently widespread use of marijuana, or American hashish, has been responsible for the sex crime. The history of every offender should be delved into deeply and reports made upon this angle.
It is only in late years that marijuana has swept across the country and, indeed, much less would be known about it today had not the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, working under its Commissioner, H. H.J Anslinger, been quick to recognize its dangers, to obtain scientific opinions regarding its effects upon the human system, and work for Federal legislation looking toward its control. A bill giving the Federal Narcotics Bureau real power in marijuana suppression has recently passed Congress. Thus a tremendous force, may now be exerted toward the eradication of a drug which violently affects the sex impulses.
By J. Edgar Hoover (Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigations) "The Indianapolis Sunday Star-This Week Magazine Section" - "War On The Sex Criminal," Sep. 26, 1937
Um, have we had any shortage of sex fiends since 1937 due to a lack of legal product, and thanks to the fine efforts of your War on your MJ?
So... what would you give up for unfettered access to your drug..in this case mj
Food
Food stamps
Welfare
Work opportunities
Living opportunities?
Should marijuana users be a protected class?
Any of the above ?
What is being given up now? I mean, your question alone is just ridiculous and demonstrates how far removed you are from reality of the topic. The ONLY thing being given up, is the prohibition on cannabis, simple. End of story.
What is being given up now? I mean, your question alone is just ridiculous and demonstrates how far removed you are from reality of the topic. The ONLY thing being given up, is the prohibition on cannabis, simple. End of story.
Your "End of Story" which you say quite often on this forum is a display of your lack of a mature healthy communication.
You say what you want, while putting others down then clamp it up with your " end of story."
Displays you are not socially mature.
Your "End of Story" which you say quite often on this forum is an display of your black of mature healthy communication.
You say what you want, while putting others downs then clamp it up with your " end of story."
Displays you are not socially mature.
Please, Atlanta, find me another example of where I say "end of story". If I say it quite often, surely you can provide me an example of this.
As for my "End of story", you aren't understanding the context in which I am using it. By repealing prohibition on cannabis, that is all that's being given up. Nothing is being "given up" now, as notmeofficer would like to infer.
If you have anything to contribute to the topic at hand, please do so.
The CNN article was current as of today... does that make it a current event
Damage from mj use and production is on going... and current
Is that current enough?
Thanks coneygirl... you're getting part of picture
Will local mj violence decrease if legalization occurred ...
I think so... but...what will the residual effect be... we are "legal" now... anyone can get script.. denials of script stats aren't even kept
Like south america its all about the money ... money and drugs = crime
So... what would you give up for unfettered access to your drug..in this case mj
Food
Food stamps
Welfare
Work opportunities
Living opportunities?
Should marijuana users be a protected class?
Any of the above ?
I don't think you realize that the majority of people in favor of legalization DO NOT USE POT!
The stoners you see would be the same if pot never existed. They would use booze or glue or something.
Really? Well, I have seen nothing except good arguments to your claims.
Im sorry.. but i dont really see any
You cannot deny that the high drug crime and murder rate south of the border is caused by huge profits created by high American demand. AgreeI think you have already agreed with that. What myself and many others have been trying to get through your head is that the high demand is caused by the BLACK MARKET. Remove that demand, and the drug crimes south of the border will subside.
If you do not agree with me so far, please say why.
While this might happen over time it will take a number of years for such phenomenon in my opinion to occur.. if MJ was legal... because the regulations will always be something some segment of the population doesnt want and wont abide by
So now the question becomes how to remove that demand. Well, why not look at alcohol regulations? After all, no one disputes the fact that we don't have alcohol wars south of the border, right? That is because there is NO DEMAND for black market alcohol.Im not sure thats true,, but we dont see large scale black market alcohol operations.. we do see tax stamp fraud by organized crime so I dont think another intoxicant like MJ will be any different.. follow the money
If you do not agree with me so far, please explain why.
So, let's do the logical thing and regulate cannabis the same way we do alcohol.
Is that not logical to you? If not, please explain why.
Potentially that might be a roadmap...but then alcohol does not immediately intoxicate you.. marijuana does.. and that creates a subset of issues.... do you really think your fellow marijuana cowboys will go along... or should we like alcohol allow some growing for personal use.. and if so.. how much and under what conditions?
Surely you don't believe it is legal growers and "granny 12-plant" growers that has caused the destruction you've seen to the Earth, right? I didnt day that or believe it at al,, which is why we had to construct a restrictive ordinance addressing air and water quality and electrical use and security... and the proponents whined and cried every step of the wayThe destruction you refer to is done by guerrilla growers that are operating to supply the huge BLACK MARKET demand. So it has the same solution as the drug wars south of the border: REMOVE THE BLACK MARKET DEMAND.
If you do not agree with this, please explain why.
As far as proper cannabis (or hemp) cultivation, done on a large scale, it is just a crop, like any other crop. Farmers have been growing crops on a large scale for quite a while now without managing to destroy our mother Earth, what makes you think growing cannabis is any different?
Agribiz will be highly regulated.. but they also have plenty of money to maximize profit at the expense of nature.. marijuana in an of itself is a noxious plant non native to many places... http://www.deamuseum.org/ccp/cannabi...tribution.html
The stoners you see, that you consider an underclass, are only the visible surface. This visible surface is composed mostly of the types you are likely to come into contact with, the asshats in other words. Underneath that visible surface are the millions of responsible, non-asshat users, like myself. The manner in which I conduct my life is one that causes my chances of interacting with LEOs to be almost nil.
Agree,,, thank you
So how can you possibly judge how many responsible users there are out there for each one of the asshats you come into contact with? I would never see a responsible MJ user... hopefully
It is always the ten percent that screws something yo for the ninety percent.. change that and you might have a better chance of full legalization. From my experience in working with local growers, collectives, and dispensaries those that wanted to get along and be legal were.. but unfortunately MJ and being high DRAWS lowlifes to it..like meth.. and coke and all the other drugs.. while I don't condemn MJ folks as a whole (kind of feels like what it means to be a policeman of late and be condemned as a murderer and violator of rights and gross harasser and abuser of others.. something MJ proponents always seem only too happy to spout off about)..for I would never know someone like you (if a tree falls in the forest is it heard)... my experience based on seat of the pants is that MJ proponents cannot be trusted,, we had 95 percent non compliance before the current ordinance.. and the prior law WAS constructed by the growers with minimal input from the community other than two BOS meetings .. where drug users showed up blowing smoke in peoples faces resulting in violence and LEO response... asshats was the word of the day.. it turned off so many people after that... when the next grow season occurred and the destruction of the earth was seen on GIS mapping via satellites the community rose up and said STOP this right now... (along with the honey oil explosions dope rips shootings neighbor pitted against neighbor on an on
I believe not being able to answer that last question explains why you think you need laws, like the prohibition of cannabis, to help you reel-in those asshats, while at the same time not realizing the immense amount of harm prohibition is causing.
There are two schools of marijuana proponents.. one is cloaked.. one is not.. I believe you are for total legalization saying it would realize huge benefits for our society.. the cloaked one is the medical mj farce... I wish they would just say legalize... and stop the smokescreen
Then there are sub splinter groups...
We can grow and smoke screw everyone else
We can grow for profit
We can smoke but otherwise be productive citizens
yada yada
What laws would you be in favor of if MJ became legal?
Grow laws
Use laws
Abuse laws
No laws
Last edited by notmeofficer; 04-12-2015 at 08:57 PM..
There are tow schools of marijuana proponents.. one is cloaked.. one is not.. I believe you are for total legalization saying it would realize huge benefits for our society.. the cloaked one is the medical mj farce... I wish they would just say legalize... and stop the smokescreen
Then there are sub splinter groups...
We can grow and smoke screw everyone else
We can grow for profit
We can smoke but otherwise be productive citizens
yada yada
What laws would you be in favor of if MJ became legal?
Grow laws
Use laws
Abuse laws
No laws
I don't think anyone has touted "huge benefits for our society", I think the VAST majority are just saying to take a realistic, reasonable approach to something that should have never been mad illegal in the first place. These are different time, it's a different society, it's a different culture and more and more, the old guard is fading out, the kids that were force fed D.A.R.E. have experiment and realized that the devils cabbage is NOT what it was made out to be, compassionate care laws allowed those in terminal states to partake, modern medicine has gotten involved and the tides are turning.
As I said earlier, end prohibition, close the book, done, finito, end of story (that's just for you, Atlanta). One chapter will close, and another will open. Things won't happen overnight, but, they will settle themselves out through due process, pragmatic approach and careful regulation.
Grow laws? Maybe what other places have in place. No one person needs 30lbs of cannabis for personal use.
Use laws? Certainly in the privacy of your won home. If where you live would allow clubs or Amsterdam style coffee shops, fine. If a business allows it, fine.
No laws? No one has EVER suggested that. That is where you fail to realize that adults for cannabis are for a responsible and regulated market for it. We don't want kids to have access. If you are of age, it should be no different than the choice to go get a bottle of wine, booze, or beer.
What laws would you be in favor of if MJ became legal?
Laws that would REMOVE the black market prices ...
and return it to the natural state AG product it should be.
Sales, a rather small amount per person, shouldn't warrant a lot of infrastructure
and won't be able to support a lot of admin costs (aka taxes).
Something along the lines of the MJ Stamps that were once used could work.
Buy them somewhere like a post office for $X paid as a tax and hand them over to
Mr GreenJeans at the Farmers Market when you buy an ounce for the $$ he wants.
Not difficult. Not complicated.
The bud will be right there in wicker baskets between his asparagus and heirloom tomato's.
Twice a year or so when you go in... you'll buy some grass too. NBD
The only "use" laws needed would be about younger kids.
Mr GreenJeans won't sell to them.
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