Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So, you are quoting two articles from 1993 versus an article written 12 years later?
Well, as I do not have any medical training, I am not going to say that I know better than the two doctors you quoted, but if a science magazine quotes doctors as saying that fetuses do not actually feel pain until 28 weeks, I am not going to say that the doctors quoted in the article are wrong, either.
You didn't even bother to read the link. The doctors were quoted as to why they did later abortions. The statement about fetal pain is something entirely different and up to date.
Quote:
I will also point out the obvious fact that early abortions are much easier on the woman than later ones -- so why would ANY woman wait so long to have an abortion if there was not a very good reason to do so? For that reason, I question Dr. Haskell's assertion that 80% of his patients who chose to have abortions in the 20th to 24th week were elective. I personally do not know of even ONE instance in which a woman chose to have an abortion after the first trimester that was NOT because the child would probably have been born with a very serious health problem. (Now, of course I am not saying that this is true in all cases -- certainly not! -- but just that I don't personally know of any woman who waited so long solely just because she was too lazy to have it done sooner.)
LOL, swell that you don't personally know anyone that has. Big deal. I don't personally know anyone that has ever raped someone so I guess that trumps those who say they were?
Many times (it's in the American Medical News article) it wasn't because they were lazy, they were in many cases reluctant to tell anyone until later in pregnancies. (Maternal indications), a 17 year old girl being afraid to tell anyone until it can no longer be avoided.
Quote:
Also, there are a LOT more genetic conditions that can be detected now through prenatal testing than was the case 22 years ago! If more women know that there is a likelihood that the fetus they are carrying could have a significantly reduced quality of life, then it would stand to reason that there would be more women choosing to save their child from that.
Please do not misunderstand, however. I am NOT saying that I approve of torturing fetuses who have the potential of becoming children -- I definitely do NOT think that! -- but I AM saying that in SOME cases, abortion is definitely justified.
However, I do recognize and respect your right to disagree with me.
If abortion only happened because of rape or a major deformity there would be no debate.
You didn't even bother to read the link. The doctors were quoted as to why they did later abortions. The statement about fetal pain is something entirely different and up to date.
LOL, swell that you don't personally know anyone that has. Big deal. I don't personally know anyone that has ever raped someone so I guess that trumps those who say they were?
Many times (it's in the American Medical News article) it wasn't because they were lazy, they were in many cases reluctant to tell anyone until later in pregnancies. (Maternal indications), a 17 year old girl being afraid to tell anyone until it can no longer be avoided.
If abortion only happened because of rape or a major deformity there would be no debate.
It is really hard to know how to respond to the above, but I am going to try, anyway.
First, obviously, there is disagreement as to what exactly a fetus feels at what stage of gestation. If there was no controversy, there would be no debate (or very little, anyway). As I said, I do not have anywhere near enough knowledge to say that one group of doctors with one viewpoint are right, and the other group of doctors with a different viewpoint are wrong.
Second, I emphasized that although I did not know of any cases personally in which a woman had a late-term abortion for anything but what I would consider to be a very good reason, I made clear that I was certain that such cases DID exist, so why "call me out" for something i did not say?
Third, yes, I agree that many times women (and especially very young women) will delay having an abortion out of fear, ignorance or denial. And although, yes, that is definitely a problem, I thought we were talking mainly about those cases in which late-term abortion should NOT be denied. I do agree with those who say that if there is no health reason for having a late-term abortion, then these late-term abortions should not be permitted.
Lastly, I disagree that if abortions only happened due to rape or a major deformity (etc.), that there would be no debate. As long as many people feel that killing a fetus (or even a week-old embryo) is unforgivable murder, I think there will continue to be a LOT of debate as to the right or wrong of abortion.
Last edited by katharsis; 05-15-2015 at 03:51 PM..
If we want to insist upon WHAT WEEK limits on abortions I'm going to also have to insist on eliminating all current methods used to keep women waiting once they get to a clinic. Mandatory this that and the other thing have got to go and can't be resurrected. It's just a way to run out the clock right? So be gone. Otherwise I'm not for any restrictions on anyone for anything. I'll error on the side of "not my business".
Fetuses cannot feel pain until at least the 28th week of gestation because
they haven't formed the necessary nerve pathways, says Mark Rosen, an
obstetrical anesthesiologist at the University of California at San Francisco.
He and his colleagues determined that until the third trimester, "the wiring at
the point where you feel pain, such as the skin, doesn't reach the emotional
part where you feel pain, in the brain." Although fetuses start forming pain
receptors eight weeks into development, the thalamus, the part of the brain that
routes information to other areas, doesn't form for 20 more weeks. Without the
thalamus, Rosen says, no information can reach the cortex for processing.
Fetuses do have reflex reactions that can make them seem pained, Rosen says.
"If you see a fetus in utero react to needle stimulation, then the common
conclusion is that it must feel." But just as with paraplegics, "that's a reflex
that's mediated by the spinal cord; that's not a conscious reaction," he says.
It is possible that a temporary structure of neurons that appears in a fetus's
brain during the second trimester allows it to sense pain. But Rosen and his
colleagues believe a fetus's brain doesn't function coherently enough to be
conscious.
Well it is good to see House Republicans wasting everyone's time....this bill will create how many jobs? Oh wait, it isn't about jobs, it is about the assumption that women are too stupid to make decisions for themselves.
That is a 10 year old article. I posted a new one from actual doctors that state they can feel pain by 20 weeks.
That is still a far cry from 8 weeks.
And, when a late term abortion is necessary, the fetus can be anesthetized.
Regardless, the issue of fetal pain has no bearing on a woman's right to abort.
What about the pain a woman experiences during labor and delivery?......or the pain we inflict on newborns/babies during medical procedures?
Should we stop providing medical treatment to fetuses or newborns if there is a chance they will feel pain?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
