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Driving the speed limit is the law. Therefore, if you drive over it, you've broken the law.
Is the person with a speeding ticket a bad person?
You want to point out bad partisan logic? What about conservatives who scream for small government yet anyone who defies the government is a bad person because it's the law. That's a contradiction of values. I'm not a statist, but the government says this is how it is so they're right 100%!
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Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
Unbelievable the way you make excuses for illegal aliens! You're yet another one who equates sneaking across a border or overstaying a visa to getting a speeding ticket
Deliberately deciding to sneak across a border or overstay a visa is "a wrongful action".
How is SS "something of a scam"? What are you talking about? Speaking of SS---the law says it's okay if someone uses your SSN as long as they don't use your name with it. Should that happen to you, the SSA won't tell you about it. Instead you find out when the IRS comes after you for not filing a tax return on a job you never worked.
So many native born Puerto Ricans have become victims of ID theft that the Puerto Rican government declared all PR-issued birth certificates null and void. Now if native born PRs need a copy of their birth certificate, they have to jump through many hoops to get a secured, certified copy. It's bad enough that their IDs were stolen but even worse, some have been arrested for crimes they didn't commit. Yet you twist yourself into a pretzel to defend illegal aliens.
There is nothing "sensible" about illegal immigration. How anyone can even make that argument is beyond despicable. And even worse---wanting to reward them with a path to citizenship.
Do you honestly believe someone crossing the boarder is that big of a deal?
And I mean that. Think about why it matters that much. What makes the action itself wrong? How do you define what's wrong? And if you can't answer that with consistency, you don't have any ability to make a moral judgement.
Should people cross illegally? Of course not. But some do so how should we handle that? Go the American way, which we call freedom, but is actually just mass incarceration? I hold true to American values. Everyone deserves an opportunity and if someone crosses the boarder, they can be punished, but when dealing with the level of punishment the severity of the crime has to be considered. This is why I find it disgusting and idiotic that rapists and drug offenders often get similar sentence lengths (with the exception of post incarceration punishment, like the sex offender registry, which studies suggest is counter productive anyway).
Fine them, give them a short prison stay if you must, but unless they've also committed a serious crime, let's not exaggerate how much of a problem they actually are causing. Deal with it in a sensible way. The 'tough on crime' policy, which is just another way of saying statist policy, is the blatant abandonment of reason and American liberty.
The people of SF have voted time and time again and this is what they want.. liberalism really is a mental disorder. When your personal safety and that of your loved ones takes a backseat over the fear of potentially "hurting the feelings" of illegal immigrants, there's a problem.
Attempting to treat others as human beings is not a mental disorder. Not everyone you try to help ends up being worthy of that attempt, but I would certainly rather be trying to help than one of the people demonizing and clutching their pearls in the I Got Mine group that is pretty much the entire GOP.
And it's interesting that no one of your mindset really attempted to explain the almost universal falling crime in the US, including murder, coinciding with high levels of illegal immigration. Care to take a shot at it?
Good info to have for this discussion! Great. More cost to the taxpayer, in addition to the administrative/court costs.
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Originally Posted by faeryedark
Yeah, and who's gonna pay for it? I'd rather see the places that hire them and those who rent to them fined.
Agreed! A solution that puts money back into the public coffers (Going after the employers) is better than one that costs the taxpayers money (Throwing the illegal immigrants in jail) and one thing that nearly everybody, lib or con seems to agree on is that mandatory e-verify is a great idea, so why isn't it being done? (Because politicians on both sides are bought and sold by big business)
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Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
That's a start. Add mandatory e-verify and seize any assets being sent out of the country by criminal aliens.
I would have no problem with requiring documentation (Passport/green card/visa) for international wire transfers. The problem is, the illegals could easily work around that by employing proxies. How do we resolve something like that without intrusive, unconstitutional protocols which would limit the liberties of American citizens?
Another thing that concerns me is our prisons are already overcrowded. To the point where violent, repeat criminals are getting earlier release and/or lesser charges (Shorter sentences, probation) and being put back out on the street to commit more crime. Do we really want to further burden the prison system with a bunch of non-violent offenders??
(Nice to see some for the most part, reasonable discussion around this subject for a change)
No; they should be charged with Official Suppression which is a law that forces government to not ignore laws they do not want to enforce or face trial for not doing so. Then of course there is civil liability which in end is paid for by taxpayers voting them into office.
I don't understand how states can defy federal law on immigration but can't with gay marriage. SCOTUS already ruled that immigration is a Federal issue NOT a state issue.
At least Bush did something positive about the problem.
"Bush Signs Bill Authorizing 700-Mile Fence for Border"
Why HASN'T it been built?
Because the Fed money keeps flowing in to the contractors, who got the contract via political connections, as long as it's not yet finished. Think Spain and Italy, or New Jersey.
They also hired illegal immigrants to build it.
America under George W became totally corrupt, and this has continued under Obama. It will continue under the next president unless his last name is Paul or Sanders (or maybe Webb)...
Why Won't The White House/Liberal Media Talk About The San Francisco Murder?
It makes me so mad to see the liberal hypocrisy. A beautiful, innocent, white woman was murdered in San Francisco by an illegal immigrant. The man was deported 5 times yet when arrested by police in April, he was released because San Francisco is a "sanctuary city" and doesn't want to abide by the laws. When Obama and the White House was asked about this event, they turned the blame to the department of homeland security, which he runs. Obama won't even address the issue. Yet, when thugs like Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, and Freddie Gray are murdered, he has a Rose Garden ceremony, speaks on the issue, and sends correspondents to their funerals. Yet there were none in attendance of this young girl's. And when these events happened, there was public outrage from the left, yet none for this young girl who was killed by an illegal immigrant. Why won't Obama or the liberal media touch on this issue. If you watch Rachael Maddow, she continues to beat the dead issue of the confederate flag. WHY WONT OBAMA OR THE LIBERAL MEDIA ADDRESS THIS HORRIFIC EVENT?
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Why Won't The White House/Liberal Media Talk About The San Francisco Murder?
