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View Poll Results: Who won the first democratic debate?
Clinton 61 36.53%
Sanders 71 42.51%
O'Malley 4 2.40%
Webb 27 16.17%
Chaffee 4 2.40%
Voters: 167. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-17-2015, 10:10 AM
 
29,543 posts, read 9,710,839 times
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What would Deaton say?

Next, the winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics.

Scottish-born Angus Deaton was recognized earlier today for his analyses about spending, poverty and welfare. His work is based on economic models with a focus on individuals and on household surveys that reveal how different social groups make economic decisions, particularly in poorer countries.

I have had experience — you know, I probably belonged to the 1 percent nowadays. I have an experience at both ends of the distribution. And that’s taught me a lot. And I think, if you have never really been poor, it’s hard to understand how — what most of the people in the world live through and live like, and how lucky those of us are who don’t have to live these really, really difficult lives.

Luck is an incredibly important thing. A lot of people who have done very well think it was entirely by their own efforts. Well, maybe it was. But, for most of us, we got to where we got by a lot of luck.

And there’s been very little serious discussion until recently. And I think inequality has its good sides. It’s part of the reward for effort and part of the reward for new innovations and all the things that are propelling our lives forward.

But it also can be a terrible threat if the people who get very rich try to deprive the rest of us of things that are important to us, like democracy, like public schools, like public health systems, and so on. So I think inequality is a very two-edged sword. I think it’s very important that we have an enormous public debate about it, and if this prize helps towards having that debate, I would be absolutely delighted.

Nobel laureate hopes prize will spur more debate on inequality
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:32 AM
 
125 posts, read 167,484 times
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Once again we democrats hit a home run out of the park with this debate. Promised freebies to everyone just like the strategists have told the party to do for decades. Works like a charm every time, and this time will be no different. Free stuff for your votes. Score!
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
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I'm surprised Webb has such a high vote in this poll, he was perfectly awful, him and Chafee need to drop out immediately.
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Old 10-17-2015, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
7,010 posts, read 11,971,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cedartoday View Post
Once again we democrats hit a home run out of the park with this debate. Promised freebies to everyone just like the strategists have told the party to do for decades. Works like a charm every time, and this time will be no different. Free stuff for your votes. Score!
Tell me what "free" stuff anyone of them mentioned. Bernie proposed his plans to pay for free college, or weren't you listening to the debate?
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Old 10-17-2015, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Inyokern, CA
1,609 posts, read 1,078,992 times
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Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
I'm surprised Webb has such a high vote in this poll, he was perfectly awful, him and Chafee need to drop out immediately.
Could not disagree more. Webb was the ONLY one of the 5 that showed any intelligence at all. He, at least, has some understanding of our Constitution and the freedom to be self-responsibile it guarantees every citizen...that is when we don't have an Obama idiot thinking he is king and can go around the Constitution with a flick of his so-called executive actions. I if we had had an intelligent and unbiased democrat Senate BO would have been impeached within a year of his Presidency.
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Old 10-17-2015, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Inyokern, CA
1,609 posts, read 1,078,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
Tell me what "free" stuff anyone of them mentioned. Bernie proposed his plans to pay for free college, or weren't you listening to the debate?
Here's a couple more. Free medical including illegals, free family leave; i.e., by forcing business to pay for no-work days. Guess who pays that bill? Those costs will always be passed down to the consumer of the product/service that business sells.
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Old 10-18-2015, 07:34 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 27,003,525 times
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Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
No matter who is running, we all know they will be criticized for something. Too little experience in or out of government. Too much money or not enough to finance a campaign. Whatever suits your fancy, promotes your political agenda.

America would be far better off if we knew better how to judge leadership, but few of us really have that attribute, so we evaluate politician's resumes in ways that don't really apply to the job being filled, that of POTUS.

Or maybe you might be more inclined to pick someone who has worked EVERY day of their lives in the private sector (like I have) rather than in government. Maybe that makes Trump your man, someone who has worked in the private sector and made lots more money, longer than Obama and Sanders combined!

I would argue, on the other hand, no matter what your ideology, we can do better than focus on these sorts of resume credentials when it comes to choosing our next POTUS. I don't have time to lay out that better criteria, but suggest it is most certainly there to be had.

Or, argue about who has punched their time card the most times for the most money if you will. Free country after all...

We get what we deserve!
Actually I'd prefer someone who's not been a government "lifer" and who's pulled himself/herself up from nothing to successful and has some critical thinking ability.
Ben Carson comes to mind.
As for experience, there IS NO CLASS OR TRAINING to become president. Experience obviously doesn't matter hence our current president being elected.
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Old 10-18-2015, 08:41 AM
 
29,543 posts, read 9,710,839 times
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Default Free stuff...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cedartoday View Post
Once again we democrats hit a home run out of the park with this debate. Promised freebies to everyone just like the strategists have told the party to do for decades. Works like a charm every time, and this time will be no different. Free stuff for your votes. Score!
Interesting argument that would take more than a few posts to get through, but it sure seems to me that one man's "free stuff" is another man's effort to balance the "free ride" that those with wealth and power have enjoyed for decades as well.

How do you offer the chance for someone not so well advantaged to get a college education without going into too much debt. No way can kids today afford to do so like once upon a time, like I did in my time. Education, cost for housing, even books, have all skyrocketed, while the highest income Americans need not concern themselves quite so much about that as they even up the anti by paying for tuition at private elite schools.

While the vast majority of the wealth keeps flowing to the very few, what choice have we but to stem that tide just a bit in the name of pursuing "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" for ALL Americans, maybe by offering a little more in the way of "free stuff" to those who need it most and a little less "free ride" for those who have the most!

Then again, we need a little better understanding about all this and good public policy, not just this sort of battle of rhetoric and semantics based on your political leaning.
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Old 10-18-2015, 08:57 AM
 
29,543 posts, read 9,710,839 times
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Default Takes intelligence to know intelligence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lorrysda View Post
Could not disagree more. Webb was the ONLY one of the 5 that showed any intelligence at all. He, at least, has some understanding of our Constitution and the freedom to be self-responsibile it guarantees every citizen...that is when we don't have an Obama idiot thinking he is king and can go around the Constitution with a flick of his so-called executive actions. I if we had had an intelligent and unbiased democrat Senate BO would have been impeached within a year of his Presidency.
And I must disagree with you some more...

Takes a good deal more than his basic understanding of the Constitution, that I would argue Webb demonstrates no better than anyone else, certainly no better than Obama. Need not go too far with regard to all the MISUNDERSTANDING around the Constitution, just visit the threads regarding gun control and all the political rhetoric/nonsense surrounding that issue! Simply to say, those freedoms are heavily debated and not commonly understood from a Constitutional standpoint. (Gun control is NOT unconstitutional, with all due respect to the 2nd Amendment ).

Clearly, Hillary and Bernie are the only two who seem in any way supported and qualified enough to continue their bid for POTUS. The other three pale in serious fashion by comparison, and all most people will remember of Webb's performance is his ongoing complaint about time. I was sympathetic, but any good candidate knows better than to whine like that. The best command their time, like the more forceful/compelling do.

Still, I was sympathetic for Webb as he struggled, until that last bit when the candidates were asked which enemy they are most proud to have made (or something like that). I could hardly believe Webb's answer, and again I was sympathetic for him as the silence lingered after the words came out of his mouth...

All told, I sensed a lack of leadership skills and vision, eclipsed by too much example of poor judgment as to what to say on his own behalf.
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Old 10-18-2015, 09:13 AM
 
29,543 posts, read 9,710,839 times
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Default More free stuff confusion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lorrysda View Post
Here's a couple more. Free medical including illegals, free family leave; i.e., by forcing business to pay for no-work days. Guess who pays that bill? Those costs will always be passed down to the consumer of the product/service that business sells.
Careful about the misrepresentations of truth and/or over-simplifications, because of course we all know there really is NOTHING that comes free. We should also know that for the most part, those who pay for "free stuff" also gain in many indirect as well as direct ways. We may offer some "free stuff" in the way of medical services to immigrants, for example, but the farmers gain from the cheap access to the labor, and Americans pay less for their groceries at the market also as a result. Yes, I know, we can debate these cost/benefit scenarios forever, but suffice to say, none of these scenarios is altogether too simple.

The bit about "free" family leave is a little easier to poke fun on. Of course every manner of what an employee receives in return for their work is paid by business, their employer. If lucky, a worker might get vacation time, that SHOULD be paid by the employer or it really isn't vacation time. Same with sick days! How is family leave, a standard in just about every other advanced modern society any different?

If these sorts of reasonable basics are not made law of the land, all we do is allow the employers who are most inclined to treat and compensate their employees at or below bare minimum to have an unfair advantage over the employers who want to do the right thing in support of better minimum working conditions/standards.

None of which is "free." Perhaps the more applicable term is "earned."

Remember when more pay for working overtime was even debated debated? The right to take "free" rest breaks?
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