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Old 01-07-2016, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,414,093 times
Reputation: 4190

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Again, you dodge the question. If a tax on ammunition is like a "poll tax" why isn't a $100,000 bail like a poll tax for a poor criminal defendant?

Because equal rights are protected based on race, religion, sex, and by some accounts sexual orientation, not wealth.

If the bail for murder is $100,000 and it's the same for a black male as it is for a white male, it's legal.

That wasn't that hard.
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,943,485 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
You can apply a sales tax, that's not a problem. The additional tax theoretically would make poor citizens unable to exercise their Constitutional right to bear arms. It was mentioned in another post, similar to a poll tax. Why was that deemed illegal? Because it deterred poor people from voting (another Constitutional right). The right to smoke is not stated specifically in the Constitution.
There is a First Amendment that guarantees a free press. yet, states can tax the sale of books.

The argument is specious. But if you want to pursue this, go pass a constitutional amendment halting the states from taxing firearms -- just like there was a constitutional amendment barring poll taxes.
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,242,918 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Because equal rights are protected based on race, religion, sex, and by some accounts sexual orientation, not wealth.

If the bail for murder is $100,000 and it's the same for a black male as it is for a white male, it's legal.

That wasn't that hard.
Then you would agree that an increase in the tax on guns or ammo would not be an equal protection issue, right? (Which has been my point all along)
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,414,093 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Then you would agree that an increase in the tax on guns or ammo would not be an equal protection issue, right? (Which has been my point all along)
You are assuming that one section of the constitution supercedes another, which is false. The equal protection clause isn't relevant because the 2nd stands alone.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,414,093 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
There is a First Amendment that guarantees a free press. yet, states can tax the sale of books.

The argument is specious. But if you want to pursue this, go pass a constitutional amendment halting the states from taxing firearms -- just like there was a constitutional amendment barring poll taxes.

The power to tax requires uniformity. Sales tax are uniform and customary. And again, you are mixing apples and oranges.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:55 PM
 
552 posts, read 313,841 times
Reputation: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by svendrell View Post
Or heavily regulate bullets and make them prohibitively expensive.
Where have we seen people make it prohibitively expensive to exercise a right before? Ever heard of a poll tax? Any attempt to circumvent the 2nd Amendment by targeting ammunition would either be found unconstitutional or trigger the writing and ratification of a 28th Amendment.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:57 PM
 
552 posts, read 313,841 times
Reputation: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
How? Both are subject to sales tax, why is it unconstitutional to impose an additional tax? Equal protection doesn't seem to apply to smokers who pay $10 for pack of cigarettes in one state and $4 in another, does it?
Smoking isn't a constitutionally protected right. Is that really so hard for you to understand?
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,242,918 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
You are assuming that one section of the constitution supercedes another, which is false. The equal protection clause isn't relevant because the 2nd stands alone.
Ok, so where in the 2nd amendment does it say that you can't impose a tax on guns or ammo? The initial response I got from one poster was that they can't be taxed, but that's clearly wrong- both are subject to sales tax..so I'm really unclear as to why there couldn't be an additional tax...
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:03 PM
 
552 posts, read 313,841 times
Reputation: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Ok, so where in the 2nd amendment does it say that you can't impose a tax on guns or ammo?
"A well regulated militia, necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

Chief Justice John Marshall wrote in McCulloch v Maryland, "the power to tax is the power to destroy". By excessively taxing ammunition and firearms with the aim to prevent people from buying them, you are destroying the purpose of the 2nd Amendment. Even if you only made ammunition prohibitively expensive, you are causing the militia to no longer be well regulated. A firearm without ammunition is no longer a firearm and is rendered useless. You have infringed on the right to keep and bear arms. That is unconstitutional.
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland
5,940 posts, read 3,568,438 times
Reputation: 5651
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
Spoken like a true "responsible" gun owner.

If they do something you don't like, you think they should be killed? That's the very definition of insanity.

Further, like most rights, the right to bear arms has limitations-- You can't own anti aircraft guns and mount them in your backyard....

It's just a question of where the line is...

That's right. The Constitution doesn't mention "The Right to Bear "Anti Aircraft Guns," or even Aircraft, for that matter.. How strange....


I love it when anti-gun folks think "Small Arms" are in the same class as Artillery, Anti Aircraft Guns, Tanks, and Atomic Bombs. That's the very definition of insanity.


Actually, you can own most anything you want, if your willing to do the paperwork, pay the fee, and get the Permits. That "Line" is more fluid than one may assume.
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