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Yes, it's unethical to pay anybody way above the fair market value. Frankly it's also an insult to the payee because you would be basically saying "I don't think your work is worth that much but out of pity, I mean compassion, I am going to pay you some extra."
OK. you have made your point: Some billionaires will fight to death for an extra few dollars. I fully understand that mindset is out there. Not everybody has a conscience like Bill Gates.
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Back to the CEOs. Moving the money from the consumers' pockets to the investors' is the job for every for profit business! Do you know how to move money from my pocket to the pockets of investors? I mean beside voting for the Democrat and having them tax the crap out of me so that you can get your hand-outs? Do you have a way to move my money with my consent and sometimes with me being very happily and willingly? If you do, you would be qualified for making millions in compensation.
You fail to see the point. Moving money for providing a valuable service is honorable and worthy of admiration. Particularly when the business activity involves true wealth creation.
However, moving money from your pocket with the help of Washington DC is not worthy of admiration. The service that is provided is mundane and can be done for much less if there was true competition. You think I am against capitalism and you are way off. I believe capitalism is the key to success. However, crony capitalism that leads to a CEO making 66 million dollars a year helps NO ONE.
Regarding the profit margin of UnitedHealth: The job they do can be done with a set fee. The earnings could be used to lower the premiums.
Capitalism is supposed to reward talent and creativity. This gig of charging high premiums, paying medical bills, and keeping the difference as profit is not exactly rocket science. However, these folks are under the umbrella of Washington DC.
OK. you have made your point: Some billionaires will fight to death for an extra few dollars. I fully understand that mindset is out there. Not everybody has a conscience like Bill Gates.
Bill Gates has conscience???
He moved his entire asset to "charity" to avoid paying inheritance tax and ensure the wealth stays with his family. His Microsoft was raking in profit at 30% margin, compared to the pathetic 3.6% at UHC and Walmart, yet he was not paying anybody much better. He fought tooth and nail to keep the last dollar for Microsoft and sued every competitor in every way possible to ensure its monopoly and pirated everything from Apple.
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Originally Posted by Julian658
You fail to see the point. Moving money for providing a valuable service is honorable and worthy of admiration. Particularly when the business activity involves true wealth creation.
However, moving money from your pocket with the help of Washington DC is not worthy of admiration. The service that is provided is mundane and can be done for much less if there was true competition. You think I am against capitalism and you are way off. I believe capitalism is the key to success. However, crony capitalism that leads to a CEO making 66 million dollars a year helps NO ONE.
Regarding the profit margin of UnitedHealth: The job they do can be done with a set fee. The earnings could be used to lower the premiums.
How do they use the earnings to lower the premium at 3.6% profit margin? Should they go with even thinner profit margin? With 3.6% margin, any deviation in their premium would likely send the company into the red - employees would be laid off.
Also why should they lower the premium?
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Originally Posted by Julian658
Capitalism is supposed to reward talent and creativity. This gig of charging high premiums, paying medical bills, and keeping the difference as profit is not exactly rocket science. However, these folks are under the umbrella of Washington DC.
Again, please thank Obama and the Democrats for that. The Republicans have been trying to tear it down.
Last edited by lifeexplorer; 05-03-2016 at 10:55 AM..
He moved his entire asset to "charity" to avoid paying inheritance tax and ensure the wealth stays with his family. His Microsoft was raking in profit at 30% margin, compared to the pathetic 3.6% at UHC and Walmart, yet he was not paying anybody much better. He fought tooth and nail to keep the last dollar for Microsoft and sued every competitor in every way possible to ensure its monopoly and pirated everything from Apple.
Yes, but he was just competing as ALL business people must do. And he created something that improved the quality of life even if he got the idea form Apple (who got the idea from Xerox). I don't have issues with hardcore true capitalism because it creates wealth and advances the human civilization.
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How do they use the earnings to lower the premium at 3.6% profit margin? Should they go with even thinner profit margin? With 3.6% margin, any deviation in their premium would likely send the company into the red - employees would be laid off.
Also why should they lower the premium?
The labor of the insurance industry does not merit a profit. Unlike Gates the HealthInsurance industry creates nothing and the work they do can be done by someone else for a much lower fee. The profit would simply be getting paid for doing work. No different than a McDonalds laborer. The insurance folks do not have extraordinary skills that would merit a profit. You cannot compare the CEO of United Health to Bill Gates------they are not in the same universe.
The premium paid by patients should be enough to cover the salary of the workers and nothing else.
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Again, please thank Obama and the Democrats for that. The Republicans have been trying to tear it down.
Obama care is a disaster because the Health Insurance Industry will raise the premiums and deductibles of folks like you so they can maintain the profit margin and pay the salaries they pay to the CEO and board of directors. And this is blessed by Washington DC. Why do you think the HeathCare lobby is so big?
Let me put it to you in another way. Lets say you pay a fee for someone to do your gardening. Do you pay them a huge profit on top of the fee they get?
Yes, but he was just competing as ALL business people must do. And he created something that improved the quality of life even if he got the idea form Apple (who got the idea from Xerox). I don't have issues with hardcore true capitalism because it creates wealth and advances the human civilization.
And UHC is any different? It pays for medical bills including mine. May have saved my life.
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Originally Posted by Julian658
The labor of the insurance industry does not merit a profit. Unlike Gates the HealthInsurance industry creates nothing and the work they do can be done by someone else for a much lower fee. The profit would simply be getting paid for doing work. No different than a McDonalds laborer. The insurance folks do not have extraordinary skills that would merit a profit. You cannot compare the CEO of United Health to Bill Gates------they are not in the same universe.
The premium paid by patients should be enough to cover the salary of the workers and nothing else.
? They created something called "insurance." It's the same as the insurance you buy as you ship your vase from Qing Dynasty. How is that not beneficial to the society? You want to pay your medical bill in its entirety? Go right ahead.
The UHC CEO is more remarkable than Bill Gates as he can run a company with 3.6% margin and keep 200,000 people employed.
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Originally Posted by Julian658
Obama care is a disaster because the Health Insurance Industry will raise the premiums and deductibles of folks like you so they can maintain the profit margin and pay the salaries they pay to the CEO and board of directors. And this is blessed by Washington DC. Why do you think the HeathCare lobby is so big?
Let me put it to you in another way. Lets say you pay a fee for someone to do your gardening. Do you pay them a huge profit on top of the fee they get?
Yes, a profit margin of 3.6%! I hope you really understand how tiny and minute that margin is.
Without health insurance industry, all of us would be paying our medical bills in their entirety. That would be disastrous for many people, and for millions, that literally means death.
The maternity leave thing bugs me a bit. My employer gives paid leave. Why don't those of us who aren't interested in having kids get 6 weeks of paid leave?
Because you are not having a kid.
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Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest
Regardless, the government should have no say as to whether you get leave or lose your job in a scenario such as yours.
See the post below. The government is responsible for the FMLA. It covers unpaid leave for medical or family reasons and insures one does not lose their job. Do you really believe employers should be allowed to fire employees due to medical reasons or family problems? Should we do away with workmans comp and SS benefits also? How about Obama care?
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Originally Posted by Linda_d
Maternity leave falls under the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993, which allows qualified workers of employers subject to its provisions to take up to 12 weeks of unpaid time off for medical or family reasons per year. Maternity, adoption, care-giving for spouses/parents, and illness are all covered, and leave is available to both men and women. About 2/3 of American workers work for employers covered by FMLA.
FTR, maternity leave or FMLA leave is not the same thing as an employer/manager/boss regularly allowing some workers to leave early because of having childcare responsibilities while expecting all others to work longer.
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Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
I don't think you should burden other people with your own choice and decision.
Really, how are you burdened by a co-worker taking a few weeks off. Are you required to work overtime? Do you get extra pay. How often have you had to do that? We have had a few women take time off for maternity (unpaid) and it didn't affect anyone else's job.
And UHC is any different? It pays for medical bills including mine. May have saved my life.
The doctor and nurses saved your life while the insurance folks made money off your premiums. Big difference!
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? They created something called "insurance." It's the same as the insurance you buy as you ship your vase from Qing Dynasty. How is that not beneficial to the society? You want to pay your medical bill in its entirety? Go right ahead.
The UHC CEO is more remarkable than Bill Gates as he can run a company with 3.6% margin and keep 200,000 people employed.
UHC did not invent health insurance. Insurance has been around since medieval times and beyond. The Germans had formal heath insurance in the late 19th century. The CEO at UHC has not created or invented anything. These folks have done nothing innovative that advances the civilization. UHC simply pays congressmen so they look the other way while they make billions for a job that anyone could do for much less.
Are you able to see your contradiction? You went out of your way to say it was unethical to overpay for services received and yet you glorify the temple of UHC!
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Yes, a profit margin of 3.6%! I hope you really understand how tiny and minute that margin is.
You keep missing the point. The work they do should be paid with a fee and there should be NO PROFIT margin.
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Without health insurance industry, all of us would be paying our medical bills in their entirety. That would be disastrous for many people, and for millions, that literally means death.
Yeah, right------nice strawman. No one is against insurance, but we clearly need a new model and true competition. As of now there are very few companies that have a captive audience.
perhaps other people have expensive, time-consuming hobbies other than having kids and would like some paid time off as well.
lol
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