African Americans are oppressed. Why is this so hard to understand by the right? (problems, jobs)

[Julian658]

Originally Posted by Packard fan

Uh; MOST Black people were married between 1865 and 1965 so, what happened way over 100 years ago ain't an excuse to be screw ups in 2016. Word was the marriage rate was HIGHER for Blacks than any other "race" during that time.

Too simplistic!

You neglect history and assume everybody is born in a vacuum with the same blank slate. Being the son of a physicist is not the same as being the son of a slave.

[Professor Griff]

Originally Posted by Julian658

Excellent points. I believe a huge component of the oppression is likely self inflicted or an exaggerated perception. Nevertheless, this lack of confidence and distrust is the end result of the history of the US and the relationship with black America.




Exactly, all that is needed are families like yours. But, how can this be propagated when the ancestors of many people were separated and there was never a family?

As a descendant of slaves, my ancestors were separated too. But, somewhere in time, someone in the future generations of my family decided to maintain the family unit. Someone, at some time, made a choice to preserve our family.


As I said the real oppression is not that harsh, but the perception is that things are worst than ever. And this perception becomes reality for many--------- and that is the essence of the problem in some circles.

The perception is from people who don't have any viable perspective on what life for blacks was like 50 or 60+ years ago. My grandparents were, quite literally, dirt floor poor in the post-depression era south. Oppression for blacks was the way of the day. My great grandfather was a sharecropper in North Carolina. My grandfather grew up in southern Virginia and witnessed things that would never EVER occur in 21st century America unless someone was looking to truly initiate a race riot. However, they had a modicum of self respect and responsibility. They could've rightly blamed their woes on the Jim Crow era they were very much living in. Instead, my grandfather fought in WWII, went on to start his own businesses, and truly did carve his own piece of the "American Dream" in spite of what was, at times, a challenging and ominous socioeconomic climate for us.

When I think of my grandfather and my own father and how hard they worked to achieve what they have, I can't offer much sympathy to the young black men who choose to loiter around gas stations and shopping centers here in Baltimore on weekdays when the rest of us are at work. As a person who had to walk over a mile to catch a bus and ride 40 minutes to a job at lowly Wendy's at 16, I can't sympathize with us excusing the poor behavior of our youth with the same, tired, "we need jobs... we need summer programs" bit - when they live two blocks from a bus line. I can't sympathize with those blaming whites and others for them viewing us as dangerous, when we've generated millions, if not billions, of dollars endorsing a culture of which we are willing participants in perpetuating the idea that we are a danger. I can't sympathize with Black Lives Matter while living in a city where I'm somewhere north of 70% more likely to be shot by someone who looks like me, than a police officer, especially given that I've already been robbed at gunpoint by someone else black who had absolutely no regard for my black life.

I'm simply not for the excuses anymore. I've seen the results of good decisions - against seemingly insurmountable odds - and know that much of the reason why many blacks find themselves in a disadvantaged position is because we've collectively made a long string of bad decisions. The problem is that we have a difficult time turning the mirror back on ourselves. We have a hard time admitting our mistakes. For those blacks, like me, who point out our stake in the problem, we are summarily dismissed as Uncle Toms and coons - traitors to the black race. Makes it hard for us to want to be part of the solution.

[Packard fan]

Originally Posted by Professor Griff

The perception is from people who don't have any viable perspective on what life for blacks was like 50 or 60+ years ago. My grandparents were, quite literally, dirt floor poor in the post-depression era south. Oppression for blacks was the way of the day. My great grandfather was a sharecropper in North Carolina. My grandfather grew up in southern Virginia and witnessed things that would never EVER occur in 21st century America unless someone was looking to truly initiate a race riot. However, they had a modicum of self respect and responsibility. They could've rightly blamed their woes on the Jim Crow era they were very much living in. Instead, my grandfather fought in WWII, went on to start his own businesses, and truly did carve his own piece of the "American Dream" in spite of what was, at times, a challenging and ominous socioeconomic climate for us.

When I think of my grandfather and my own father and how hard they worked to achieve what they have, I can't offer much sympathy to the young black men who choose to loiter around gas stations and shopping centers here in Baltimore on weekdays when the rest of us are at work. As a person who had to walk over a mile to catch a bus and ride 40 minutes to a job at lowly Wendy's at 16, I can't sympathize with us excusing the poor behavior of our youth with the same, tired, "we need jobs... we need summer programs" bit - when they live two blocks from a bus line. I can't sympathize with those blaming whites and others for them viewing us as dangerous, when we've generated millions, if not billions, of dollars endorsing a culture of which we are willing participants in perpetuating the idea that we are a danger. I can't sympathize with Black Lives Matter while living in a city where I'm somewhere north of 70% more likely to be shot by someone who looks like me, than a police officer, especially given that I've already been robbed at gunpoint by someone else black who had absolutely no regard for my black life.

I'm simply not for the excuses anymore. I've seen the results of good decisions - against seemingly insurmountable odds - and know that much of the reason why many blacks find themselves in a disadvantaged position is because we've collectively made a long string of bad decisions. The problem is that we have a difficult time turning the mirror back on ourselves. We have a hard time admitting our mistakes. For those blacks, like me, who point out our stake in the problem, we are summarily dismissed as Uncle Toms and coons - traitors to the black race. Makes it hard for us to want to be part of the solution.

Agreed and; some of the BIGGEST "bigots" against hood rats are Black people who left the crab pot and, did well in life. Kinda like many of us anglo white people who look down HARD on PWT and; don't have a problem seeing their despicable kind put in their place, even if the punisher's a "Black" cop or judge.

[West of Encino]

Because society is largely anti-black and most non-blacks are too busy seeking white validation.

[dechatelet]

Originally Posted by Julian658

It would take a few generations to undo the harm.
I will expand on this tomorrow. But, basically it has to do with changing the MEMES of the oppressed and the right wingers.

How about speaking in normal English?

Most people don't know what MEMES are, and have no reason to know what they are -- other than the fact that they are B.S.

Originally Posted by SeasonedNewbie

What you're asking is akin to why a battered wife didn't punch her abusive husband's lights out. Blacks in slavery were so psychologically and spiritually broken that they were stripped of their will to fight.

Now unless you have a solution for giving my people a mental and spiritual detox after 400+ years of struggle, then it would be wise not to ask such questions.

Solve your own problems.

Like other people do.

Originally Posted by mash123

As somebody that came from a minority that was really oppressed I can tell you 100% that blacks are not oppressed in this country.
Blacks here suffer from INTERNAL problems: Luck of work/study values and lack of family values (fatherless kids) As a Jew in USSR I could not go to some universities because there was a limit on the percentage of Jews in some faculties, I could not work in certain places, I could not leave the country, I could not study my own national language (Hebrew), we suffered from unjust hate from the government and large crowds. This is what I call real oppression. And despite all of this, Jews were almost not involved in any crime.

Well said.

Originally Posted by Julian658

This is the error most right wingers make. They compare blacks to Asians or other groups and claim blacks are somehow flawed.

Asians that come to the US come from a long tradition of of academic achievement and family unity. This is what their Asian ancestors have done for hundreds of years.

OTHO, most blacks in America DO NOT have that type of tradition. Many blacks in America can only go back to an enslaved ancestor that never had a chance to develop a tradition that is remotely similar to the Asians. It is very easy to succeed if your ancestry was very successful. American blacks have nothing to fall on. MEMES are extremely important and American blacks do not have the same MEMEs as Asians.

Sorry, they need to create something to "fall back on" -- just like everyone else.

Originally Posted by Julian658

Thank you for making my point.

The Jews have an academic and family tradition that goes back to biblical times. IN other words the MEMEs are amazing.

Many American blacks have ZERO tradition of academic achievement. They come from a system where there was no family and no tradition of achievement. Their heritage is completely different from the Jews.

This suboptimal heritage engineered by the slavery system is what causes the oppression. And this cannot change overnight. Allowing blacks to go to schools and the bathrooms, electing black mayors, and Obama does not change the basic heritage of slavery. That is why blacks born and raised in Africa often outperform American blacks. The former may not have the slavery heritage.

So you're actually -- HA HA HA HA HA -- saying that blacks in Africa have had it BETTER than American blacks.

TOO FUNNY!

[dechatelet]

Originally Posted by notmeofficer

America...what a great place..where BECAUSE you are minority you get "POINTS" added to promotional selection criteria...over white applicants.

Oppressed... doubtful... in some minds maybe..reality is government bends over backwards for minorities these accommodations flow to every aspect of living.

Exactly.

Blacks and Native Americans should be angry that Latinos are given the same racial preferences that blacks and Native Americans are given -- thus crowding them out of what should be rightfully theirs (if we're going to have racial preferences at all).

Really, just being "non-white" means you go to the head of the line ahead of whites.

You could have just arrived in this country two days ago; you'll still get those preferences for "non-whites."

You could even be descended from lilly white Spanish nobility, but get a nice "minority set-aside" government contract because your last name ends in "ez."

I've actually seen that happen!

Originally Posted by hawkeye2009

Work harder

Emphasize education

Have two parent families

Don't commit crimes

Stay away from drugs

Emphasize personal responsibility

Yes, that would help.

Originally Posted by Uncle Bully

What's your game? Are you a black person looking for a free ride or a white person looking to use divisions between white and black Americans to your political advantage? Or maybe you're just a garden variety troll.

I vote for "troll."

Originally Posted by don1945

Let's look at history for some answers: EVERY other nationality that came to this country initially were oppressed in some manner. Germans, Jews, Italians, Poles, etc, etc. They had huge obstacles to overcome, like language barriers and people feeling very negatively about them. My own ancestors came here with no money, knew no English, and were hated by many who were already here, and called horrible names, like "Dumb Pollock, ****, ****," and more.

However, within several generations, all of those groups were able to rise out of that hatred and are now no longer considered anything other than simply Americans. How did they do it, and is there a lesson here that other minorities could learn from ? Here is how they did it:

1) They found jobs, any kind of job, and worked hard at those jobs to support their families.

2) They formed strong family units and strove to teach their children right from wrong, and the importance of getting a good education so that they could have a better life than them. Dad and Mom were right there every day , seeing that their children were well taken care of and not running the streets.

3) They proved to the other people that they were not a threat and that all they wanted was to become good Americans and productive members of this country.

In time, people started respecting them and, now, they are captains of industry, police officers, lawyers, teachers, and in many other much respected careers.

That is how they did it, so there is a blueprint available for any group that wants to also rise above oppression and their current status. All it takes is the desire to truly follow those simple rules.

Don

Well said.

And there are plenty of middle and upper-middle-class blacks in this country.

It's not as if they can't prosper if they try.

But that actually requires work, good faith and self discipline.

And that's the problem -- it ain't happenin' with a lot of blacks.

Originally Posted by illtaketwoplease

For any black Americans that think they are oppressed - and that support Hillary and the democrats -- why don't you ask your leadership (and yourself) why they are promoting illegal immigration and spending hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars supporting them -- and not you.

You are being played like a fiddle.

Yes, indeed!

All the jobs that unemployed blacks could get are being taken by illegals.

Well, why not?

It's easier to just live on welfare and play the victim.

Originally Posted by Roaddog

Children are the future and without parental guidance there is no hope for a better future. It's up to Blacks if they want a better future, nobody else can do it for them.

So true.

[dechatelet]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

You just admitted to one of the major problems in the black community. Academic excellence doesn't take 100s of years to develop. Do you think Irish peasant immigrants had a tradition of education? Hell no.

You're making more excuses for your people's own choice to be failures.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by chadgates

Here's my question.

If, when a small fraction of blacks commit all this crime that we here about, but yet we can't generalize and say "blacks are criminals" (because that is stupid and flawed reasoning), then why is it that because a small fraction of blacks are discriminated against or mistreated by someone it is perfectly acceptable to make the generalization of "blacks are oppressed"???

Good question!

Originally Posted by Julian658

This is what I am talking about------FOO is SO important! And sadly some blacks have the worst FOO in the planet. Why is this so hard to see by right wingers?

What the hell is FOO?

Originally Posted by Julian658

BTW, I am white

Oh, what a surprise.

Another guilt-ridden white liberal who probably doesn't even know any blacks...

You guys simply fail to grasp why there is a problem in some areas of the black community. Paradoxically you stumbled on the solution (see bold above). This is all about MEMES and FOO. And sadly many blacks in the USA have the worst MEMES and FOO. And that cannot be easily changed!

Let's see.

School must be out for summer (checks calendar) -- yes, it is!

Originally Posted by Julian658

Why does an Italian act like an Italian and a German acts like a German?

For the same reason descendants of slaves act the way they do today: MEMES

Any other b.s. from your lib/left professors you want to lay on us?

Originally Posted by Julian658

Whites have different MEMES than slaves even if they picked cotton.

Thanks for telling us.

We had no idea!

Originally Posted by LauraC

The ones that are victims are sold a bill of goods by their black leaders and the Democrat Party who depend on them thinking that way so the Democrat Party and Black Leaders can stay rich and powerful. They offer band aid fixes not long term solutions because as long as the people need the cheese, they will keep voting for them but if the people become middle class or rich, they won't need them anymore.

1. Emphasis on education so they can get better jobs. Does this sound like a President who wants the best for black kids or a President who kisses Teacher Union big donor butt?

Yep. Obama sends his own kids -- Sasha and Malia -- to a fancy private school, but won't allow poor blacks in D.C. to have the same opportunity.

Typical Democrat hypocrisy.

2. Al Sharpton is worth $5 million. Jesse Jackson has a net worth of $10 million. Like people who go to Congress poor and come out wealthy, how the heck did that happen? Remember all of those speeches that Jackson or Sharpton gave to the back community where they held up black scientists, doctors and businessmen and women as role models for success? Yeah, neither do I. If blacks become successful, they won't need them. But you know, there are other people in the poverty business, too. A lot of social workers and other government types would be out of a job if you cut in half the number of poor people. They are just as happy to put a band aid on the problem.

Yes, the Democrat poverty pimps have to keep their poverty industry going.

And the only way to do that is to make sure that there's lots of poverty!

3. Quit having kids out of wedlock and before they graduate high school if they want to get off the Poverty Choo Choo. This goes for poor whites as well. The government incentivizes people having kids out of wedlock. Hollywood, the news media and Democrats treat single mothers like saints. They aren't saints if they put their kids on a path to crime and poverty. Don't expect black leaders and Democrats to tell them that. Like I said, everyone is getting rich and powerful by keeping them needy and dependent.

Exactly.

4. Quit voting for the people who are making it easy to ship jobs overseas and allow millions/thousand of people into the country who compete for jobs. Those bleeding heart politicians aren't doing them any favors. They are just looking for new dependent people that will rely on them and therefore vote for them to keep them in power and help those politicians get wealthier.

So true!

[Three Wolves In Snow]

Originally Posted by Howest2008

You sound downright uninformed haven't the vast majority of African-Americans taken credit for theirs failures and also theirs successes answer me yes or no yea or nay will you plese ...Puts The Micro- phone Behind His Back Spins Around & Drops The Microphone then does a split LOLLL.....

You sound ignorant that you pretend there's not black people out there who blame white people for everything, and then you have whites who want to preach about "white privilege" while they vote for that nasty hag Hillary who continues to escape prison time due to her very white privilege and blame white people for everything. Stop pretending it doesn't happen. I don't care if you're black, you know damn good and well that there's black people who blame white people - if there weren't, we wouldn't have stupid ass threads like this.

You also sound completely ignorant that you fail to acknowledge the thread I was responding to telling white people that they are to be held accountable for slavery...F that. I am not responsible for something people did hundreds of years ago, who are now dead, by the way, anymore than black people are responsible for the Africans who sold their ancestors IN TO slavery in the first damn place.

Edit: Here, this popped up on another thread...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...es-strike-back

Stop acting like it's not happening more than you would like to pretend it's not happening.

[dechatelet]

Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow

You sound ignorant that you pretend there's not black people out there who blame white people for everything, and then you have whites who want to preach about "white privilege" while they vote for that nasty hag Hillary who continues to escape prison time due to her very white privilege and blame white people for everything. Stop pretending it doesn't happen. I don't care if you're black, you know damn good and well that there's black people who blame white people - if there weren't, we wouldn't have stupid ass threads like this.

You also sound completely ignorant that you fail to acknowledge the thread I was responding to telling white people that they are to be held accountable for slavery...F that. I am not responsible for something people did hundreds of years ago, who are now dead, by the way, anymore than black people are responsible for the Africans who sold their ancestors IN TO slavery in the first damn place.

Well said.

And I would just add that ALL races and ethnic groups have practiced slavery and oppressed people.

The only race that actually outlawed slavery throughout most of the world was whites.

[Julian658]

Originally Posted by Professor Griff

The perception is from people who don't have any viable perspective on what life for blacks was like 50 or 60+ years ago. My grandparents were, quite literally, dirt floor poor in the post-depression era south. Oppression for blacks was the way of the day. My great grandfather was a sharecropper in North Carolina. My grandfather grew up in southern Virginia and witnessed things that would never EVER occur in 21st century America unless someone was looking to truly initiate a race riot. However, they had a modicum of self respect and responsibility. They could've rightly blamed their woes on the Jim Crow era they were very much living in. Instead, my grandfather fought in WWII, went on to start his own businesses, and truly did carve his own piece of the "American Dream" in spite of what was, at times, a challenging and ominous socioeconomic climate for us.

When I think of my grandfather and my own father and how hard they worked to achieve what they have, I can't offer much sympathy to the young black men who choose to loiter around gas stations and shopping centers here in Baltimore on weekdays when the rest of us are at work. As a person who had to walk over a mile to catch a bus and ride 40 minutes to a job at lowly Wendy's at 16, I can't sympathize with us excusing the poor behavior of our youth with the same, tired, "we need jobs... we need summer programs" bit - when they live two blocks from a bus line. I can't sympathize with those blaming whites and others for them viewing us as dangerous, when we've generated millions, if not billions, of dollars endorsing a culture of which we are willing participants in perpetuating the idea that we are a danger. I can't sympathize with Black Lives Matter while living in a city where I'm somewhere north of 70% more likely to be shot by someone who looks like me, than a police officer, especially given that I've already been robbed at gunpoint by someone else black who had absolutely no regard for my black life.

I'm simply not for the excuses anymore. I've seen the results of good decisions - against seemingly insurmountable odds - and know that much of the reason why many blacks find themselves in a disadvantaged position is because we've collectively made a long string of bad decisions. The problem is that we have a difficult time turning the mirror back on ourselves. We have a hard time admitting our mistakes. For those blacks, like me, who point out our stake in the problem, we are summarily dismissed as Uncle Toms and coons - traitors to the black race. Makes it hard for us to want to be part of the solution.

I was not justifying the failures. And not everybody has the greatness you had in your ancestors. The issue is what to do about those that are failing. Simply saying: How come you are not as successful as I am will not help them.