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Sanders might have a point in saying when you start handing out candies, many others will try to get some by threatening to leave.
Yep watch 50 companies will threaten to leave and trump will say I will give you 5 to 10 billion in tax cuts over the next 10 yrs and will pull your Government contracts to bribes are bad. Also sticking a gun in there face and saying I will pull the trigger if you leave is basically what he did.
"Whatever deal Trump struck with Carrier does not appear to have salvaged jobs at a separate branch of United Technologies in Huntington, Ind., that makes microprocessor-based controls for the heating, air conditioning and refrigeration industries. That branch will move manufacturing operations to a new plant in Mexico, costing the city 700 jobs by 2018."
And the 1,000 jobs SAVED at the Indianapolis Carrier plant COST the taxpayers of Indiana . . . wait for it . . . . $7,000.00 for each job. You got it. The taxpayers of Indiana are all paying $7,000.00 PER JOB saved.
Total Indiana taxpayer monies paid to Carrier $7,000,000.00.
This Carrier deal baffles me: i no longer have a clue what Conservative Republicans believe in anymore. And...
....frankly, neither do they IMO. And this isn't me being at my normally snarky, smartassed best. I'm truly bemused at what's happening.
OK...let's start here: for the last 35 years or so, conservatives have told me time and time again that businesses are in business FIRST AND FOREMOST to make a profit and return cash in wheelbarrows to their stockholders.
Well, isn't that what Carrier was trying to do?
Then I'm told by these same people that government needs to stay out of the way of business...big and small. Less taxes, and less regulation (read: no taxes and no regulations if at all possible). That it's not the role of government to pick winners and losers in the marketplace at all.
I simply can't forget all of the Republican/Conservative hand wringing and outright condemnation of the auto manufacturers bailout. They're STILL killing Obama for that...right or wrong. Tom Sullivan of Fox News Talk was just talking about this fact yesterday, and as a conservative, he's bewildered too!
But let's be real about what happened here. Carrier's parent group MOST DEFINITELY got warned...directly or otherwise that leaving the U.S. would be problematic for them. I'm not prepared to call it a threat per se, but the American business mindset is such that Carrier didn't just change their minds because they're benevolent. If you think that, then you're lying to yourself. That ain't what happened.
The error of their ways was pointed out to them in dress-down fashion, and they got spooked. Can I prove it? No. But use your common sense, remove your ideological myopia, and see this for what it is. Trump-Pence punked somebody out!
Now consider for a minute what would've be been said had Obama done this earlier this year when the move to Mexico was announced. What I'm postulating here requires some intellectual honesty from conservatives. There is NO EFFIN WAY that you would've approved of him doing this....
To begin with, it would've been seen as a cynical ploy in an election year, but let's set that aside. Conservatives would've brought out the ancient arguments about Democrats being bad for business and how typical it is of liberals to put their foot on the neck of a business needing to move in order to save itself by seeking cheaper labor. And the tried and true arguments about manufacturing workers and unions pricing themselves out of the market would've been front and center again.
Deny If you want to, but I know better. And if you're being honest, you know I'm right.
Then there's this (as an addendum to the topic, but off the topic a bit)...
This thing about "white working class voters" is just as confusing.
Since Indiana is in the headlines, I'll use that state as an example. Indiana has been pretty much a rock ribbed conservative state ever since I can remember. If Indiana's residents believed that these are the types of deals that politicians should strike with business, then why in the hell have they voted in pro free trade Republicans (and a few Dems) time and time again when their state has been devastated by manufacturing job losses? I can't wrap my mind around that either.
Mike Pence, Dan Quayle, Dan Coates Dick Lugar, Evan Bayh, etc...not one of them is an economic protectionist even a little bit. When has Mike Pence ever spoken out against companies leaving this country?
Indiana offered Carrier a very nice incentive package to stay earlier this year, and Carrier turned it down flat. So where was the condemnation of their decision earlier this year outside of Trump raising hell about it? I'll tell you...there was no condemnation coming from anywhere in Republican circles...in Indiana or anywhere else.
And Democrats: get your house in order. THIS move by Trump is what our party should've been doing all along. Hell, if the Republicans are gonna tag our party as unfriendly to business no matter how untrue that is (and it's a boldfaced lie...Dems couldn't possibly be any friendlier), then you may as well live up to it and use that reputation in a populist fashion on behalf of workers.
But I digress. Republicans, I don't know who you are anymore. And if you're being honest, you guys don't either. But I know one thing: you don't believe in the stuff you've been saying (about economics) at all. Not even a little bit. And I suspect that this next four years will prove me even more correct.
"Whatever deal Trump struck with Carrier does not appear to have salvaged jobs at a separate branch of United Technologies in Huntington, Ind., that makes microprocessor-based controls for the heating, air conditioning and refrigeration industries. That branch will move manufacturing operations to a new plant in Mexico, costing the city 700 jobs by 2018."
And the 1,000 jobs SAVED at the Indianapolis Carrier plant COST the taxpayers of Indiana . . . wait for it . . . . $7,000.00 for each job. You got it. The taxpayers of Indiana are all paying $7,000.00 PER JOB saved.
Total Indiana taxpayer monies paid to Carrier $7,000,000.00.
What a deal for Carrier !
This is also assuming he can make good on his promises.
And, that still doesn't mean that Carrier has to keep those jobs IN Indiana OR that they have to be manufacturing jobs. They could easily shift them to white-collar jobs that nobody currently working them is qualified to do. I doubt it's number of jobs so much as total payroll spent or something. Devil is in the details. You know that Carrier will, if they get those tax cuts, do the math on their savings and look for some other provision in there to get rid of people, even if it means they'll lay off regular workers and hire them back as contractors for lower pay.
You just never know. It's surely not time to dance right now.
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"Whatever deal Trump struck with Carrier does not appear to have salvaged jobs at a separate branch of United Technologies in Huntington, Ind., that makes microprocessor-based controls for the heating, air conditioning and refrigeration industries. That branch will move manufacturing operations to a new plant in Mexico, costing the city 700 jobs by 2018."
And the 1,000 jobs SAVED at the Indianapolis Carrier plant COST the taxpayers of Indiana . . . wait for it . . . . $7,000.00 for each job. You got it. The taxpayers of Indiana are all paying $7,000.00 PER JOB saved.
Total Indiana taxpayer monies paid to Carrier $7,000,000.00.
What a deal for Carrier !
Also worth noting that your beyond simplistic math leaves out any state income tax, sales taxes or other taxes to be gained from keeping these folks employed.
I think you having trouble understanding what's going on is prolly why Democrats lost. Trump ran on an economic populist platform. Listen to his speech in Pittsburgh on trade. Ralph Nader could've given that speech. He basically gave a classic anti globalization speech that could've come from the populist left. Trump basically moved the anti free trade protectionist populist right of Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot into the mainstream of the GOP.
What I find off is that the left and Dems used to say that these issues of globalization were political issues that could be changed while the right used to say that they were the natural economic order of an economy going global. Now it's Democrats saying that and Trump saying that it's a political issue.
Deal to keep jobs using tax money is just another form of welfare!
Ha!
See what I mean? SMH...whatever, but okay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99
I think you having trouble understanding what's going on is prolly why Democrats lost. Trump ran on an economic populist platform. Listen to his speech in Pittsburgh on trade. Ralph Nader could've given that speech. He basically gave a classic anti globalization speech that could've come from the populist left. Trump basically moved the anti free trade protectionist populist right of Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot into the mainstream of the GOP.
What I find off is that the left and Dems used to say that these issues of globalization were political issues that could be changed while the right used to say that they were the natural economic order of an economy going global. Now it's Democrats saying that and Trump saying that it's a political issue.
So yes we live in interesting times.
I know damn well why Democrats lost. Believe me.
That's the reason this thread exists for crying out loud.
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Carrier Jobs Still Lost - Huntington Indiana
