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Everyone who goes on about all the negatives with no recognition of the positives, the economics and/or any understanding as to the true reasons things are the way they are is hardly worth the time, but I make the mistake of trying to balance out the perspective anyway.
No, of course the average American doesn't do all those things that essentially provides the incentives for illegals to come here for work, but OBVIOUSLY all those jobs done by illegals are paid for by American businesses, large and small, (who break those laws in doing so). They too don't care.
Aside from the many more wealthy home-owners who hire these house cleaners and nannies, there are lots of Americans who have their vegetables picked, landscaping done, plumbing, lawns mowed, snow shoveled, meals cooked and restaurant dishes washed by Hispanics, legal and/or illegal -- and these are not jobs "taken" from average Americans! Those are typical notions held by older white Americans who basically have NO CLUE as to what is going on around them in these regards, other than what they hear propagandized to them on their favorite Fox network.
"The business of America is business," and what is done (or not) to address illegal immigration is not a function of what average Joe Americans want or what Trump tells them. It is what the more powerful business interests want that matters, rules the day. Trump gives lip service to all who are equally xenophobic, his supporters love it, while meanwhile nothing really significant is done to change the status quo. Building the big Trump wall provides the perfect visual, but it's all show with little about it that makes sense from a practical game-changing standpoint.
Again, I used to own an employment agency, and my biggest problem with regard to this issue was that my competition was hiring illegal workers without thinking twice, while I was trying to compete by only hiring people legal to work. Anyone wants to be serious about reducing illegal immigration should focus their angst and frustration on employers, those laws and their lack of enforcement, or you are a hypocrite plain and simple. Focus on those efforts, that legislation, the resources required to go after employers, or what is one to assume? Easier to just rail at liberals and illegal immigrants because that's easier? Insult all Hispanics, why, because you don't understand them, but do the employers who hire them to repair your roof?
That or you are simply uninformed and misguided as to the dynamics of what has these people here in American illegally in the first place; their fully legal American employers giving them both cover and money, who certainly do NOT consider them criminals, but rather sometimes even providing them housing...
Most people I know would do EXACTLY the same if they were trying to escape the hardships and poverty of their home country the likes that many Hispanics are dealing with, to find where better to pursue opportunity for themselves and their loved ones. That's pretty much the story of America from the beginning. We are all descendants of immigrants, legal and illegal, who came to America primarily for those same fundamental reasons...
Not to ruin the country but the opposite, at least with hopes the country continues to offer opportunity for all, not just the advantaged and wealthy!
I've long contended that if you actually, seriously, want to address "illegal" immigration, you need to do so on the supply side of things.
Looking at it rationally, the reason there are so many people coming here illegally is so that they can find work (and/or be with family...who probably came here for the very same reason) - They're not motivated to come here to kill, rape, deal drugs (or whatever the hell Trump is telling his base these days...) - they're coming here for a VERY American reason, to "make it" here. This is a principle that immigrants have been following for centuries now.
At any rate - if you really want to address this, you need to tackle the supply side. Someone is consistently and routinely hiring these people (the answer is MANY companies).
If you really want to serious immigration reform, you have to address this issue of legal citizens/companies giving these people jobs (over "legals"). Many may not be the bad actors as they might just be doing it because it's common practice...or they're doing it so they can compete (i.e. they can't afford to pay "legals" to do the work because they'll get out-competed).
If you address this specific issue by making it so there are VERY stiff penalties for employing this practice (to the point where it isn't worth the risk - and it's more worthwhile to just hire "legals" to do the work), you basically eliminate the number 1 reason for why people come here.
Eliminate the supply - and over time, the demand will go down.
Until this is addressed in a legitimate and serious way, the problem of "illegal immigration" will never go away. A stupid, expensive, and unnecessary wall (that we're paying for...nice lie, orange man) is not going to stop these people from coming here. Many come in legally (and don't leave), and human smuggling is not going away...This wall is going to completely and utterly useless. A complete boondoggle, as they say.
Trump can conduct as many ICE raids as he wants - they will just keep coming back. That is, until you actually address the root of the problem.
It's rather humorous - because for as much lip service there is paid to the "illegals" and how horrible they are, you VERY rarely hear anything about the people employing them. Kind of ridiculous, if you ask me.
Seriously ask yourself - who is really more horrible in this scenario? Someone just trying to better their life in America, with hopes of the American dream in their minds? Or people/companies greedily exploiting these people to bring down wages as much as possible and make a quick buck off of the backs of their hard work?
We have laws for a reason.Then to accuse U.S. citizens , hypocrites, who are anti-immigrant & don't pay taxes nor provide worker's comp after we enticed them to come here illegally to work for us is an attempt to blame us while minimizing the illegal's crimes. Most of us do not do those things nor feel that way.
you may NOT feel that way sweetie, but hundreds of corporations DO... but they go around and smoke their big cigars and laugh at us all -- stick to the FACTS-- when you really want to fix the illegal problem start with the "employment issue "-- until then hypocrites all
I was all for e-verify & harsh enough penalties to employers who hire illegals that they will discontinue doing so. As I remember Obama put the kabosh on that. It's not just large corporations doing this. Plenty of small companies are guilty as well.
Unfortunately I am not in a position to enforce the laws myself. I can & do write my political representatives, vote & try to reason with others as to why it's important to not allow anyone to violate our laws.
Aside from the many more wealthy home-owners who hire these house cleaners and nannies, there are lots of Americans who have their vegetables picked, landscaping done, plumbing, lawns mowed, snow shoveled, meals cooked and restaurant dishes washed by Hispanics, legal and/or illegal -- and these are not jobs "taken" from average Americans! Those are typical notions held by older white Americans who basically have NO CLUE as to what is going on around them in these regards, other than what they hear propagandized to them on their favorite Fox network.
"The business of America is business," and what is done (or not) to address illegal immigration is not a function of what average Joe Americans want or what Trump tells them. It is what the more powerful business interests want that matters, rules the day. Trump gives lip service to all who are equally xenophobic, his supporters love it, while meanwhile nothing really significant is done to change the status quo. Building the big Trump wall provides the perfect visual, but it's all show with little about it that makes sense from a practical game-changing standpoint.
Most people I know would do EXACTLY the same if they were trying to escape the hardships and poverty of their home country the likes that many Hispanics are dealing with, to find where better to pursue opportunity for themselves and their loved ones. That's pretty much the story of America from the beginning. We are all descendants of immigrants, legal and illegal, who came to America primarily for those same fundamental reasons...
Not to ruin the country but the opposite, at least with hopes the country continues to offer opportunity for all, not just the advantaged and wealthy!
Except for working in the fields harvesting crops, those ARE jobs taken from U.S. citizens. And it's mere propaganda by you to state this is typical notions held by older white Americans who have no clue.
When my son was in high school he applied for numerous jobs that included construction demolition, bus boy, lawn mowing, animal care, digging ditches for sprinkler installation & working at fast food eateries. Every time Hispanics were hired instead of him. At least four of these businesses hired non-English speaking Hispanics. Finally he did get hired as a busboy. The other busboys worked very hard but could not communicate with the waitresses, customers, nor management. One business recently told my grandson he could not be hired because he was not the right gender or ethnicity.
One of the reasons Trump was voted in as President is because he is NOT a politician. Hope was he would actually do what he said he would do. And that is happening. But he has only been in office for 3 weeks. So for you to claim he only gives lip service to effecting real change is disingenuous & premature.
What sets Americans apart from the rest of the world is that we don't do EXACTLY what illegals are doing when our country is suffering hardships & poverty. We have a history of being industrious, of thinking outside the box, of finding ways to improve our situation. And we do it with strength, working hard & for preservation of our country & the way we live. We don't go to other countries, break their laws & then demand they give us free hand-outs & change their laws to suit us.
I've long contended that if you actually, seriously, want to address "illegal" immigration, you need to do so on the supply side of things.
Looking at it rationally, the reason there are so many people coming here illegally is so that they can find work (and/or be with family...who probably came here for the very same reason) - They're not motivated to come here to kill, rape, deal drugs (or whatever the hell Trump is telling his base these days...) - they're coming here for a VERY American reason, to "make it" here. This is a principle that immigrants have been following for centuries now.
At any rate - if you really want to address this, you need to tackle the supply side. Someone is consistently and routinely hiring these people (the answer is MANY companies).
If you really want to serious immigration reform, you have to address this issue of legal citizens/companies giving these people jobs (over "legals"). Many may not be the bad actors as they might just be doing it because it's common practice...or they're doing it so they can compete (i.e. they can't afford to pay "legals" to do the work because they'll get out-competed).
If you address this specific issue by making it so there are VERY stiff penalties for employing this practice (to the point where it isn't worth the risk - and it's more worthwhile to just hire "legals" to do the work), you basically eliminate the number 1 reason for why people come here.
Eliminate the supply - and over time, the demand will go down.
Until this is addressed in a legitimate and serious way, the problem of "illegal immigration" will never go away. A stupid, expensive, and unnecessary wall (that we're paying for...nice lie, orange man) is not going to stop these people from coming here. Many come in legally (and don't leave), and human smuggling is not going away...This wall is going to completely and utterly useless. A complete boondoggle, as they say.
Trump can conduct as many ICE raids as he wants - they will just keep coming back. That is, until you actually address the root of the problem.
It's rather humorous - because for as much lip service there is paid to the "illegals" and how horrible they are, you VERY rarely hear anything about the people employing them. Kind of ridiculous, if you ask me.
Seriously ask yourself - who is really more horrible in this scenario? Someone just trying to better their life in America, with hopes of the American dream in their minds? Or people/companies greedily exploiting these people to bring down wages as much as possible and make a quick buck off of the backs of their hard work?
First off, the reasons illegals come here is irrelevant and can't be compared to the legal immigrants that have come here past and present. No one has a right to pursue a better life by breaking laws and taking from others what doesn't belong to them. No one drags them over the border to work here. They are just as guilty as those who hire them.
Yes, jobs are one of the magnets but so are benefits and birthright citizenship for their kids. All of these incentives need to be removed. However, criminals and terrorists are looking for any of those things, thus the wall. It is far better to deter illegals from getting in here in the first place than it is to hunt them down and root them out of our country once they get in here. As for the wall......
Except for working in the fields harvesting crops, those ARE jobs taken from U.S. citizens. And it's mere propaganda by you to state this is typical notions held by older white Americans who have no clue.
I don't have time to comment on all I find in this thread since the last time I was here yesterday, but I will comment on this nonsense here...
I used to own an employment agency and put literally thousands of people to work, the great majority of them were Hispanics legal to work, and I can assure you that very few non-Hispanics EVEN APPLIED for these jobs, typically general labor type jobs at close to minimum wage. You think you know so much or better, go ask any employer (fast food, restaurants, construction) and find out for yourself the demographic of those who apply for these jobs generally speaking. Can hardly find a white person young or old anywhere near that line for work...
Posted before and again. Can you find the white person in line for these jobs? Walk by the job site and who do you see?
1. Brickmasons, blockmasons, and stonemasons 131,000 325,000 40%
2. Drywall installers, ceiling tile installers and tapers 94,000 255,000 37%
3. Roofers 76,000 246,000 31%
4. Miscellaneous agricultural workers 269,000 910,000 30%
5. Helpers, construction trades 52,000 184,000 28%
6. Dishwashers 101,000 364,000 28%
7. Construction laborers 556,000 2,055,000 27%
8. Maids and housekeepers 417,000 1,555,000 27%
9. Cement Masons, concrete finishers, and terrazzo workers 29,000 109,000 27%
10. Packaging and filling machine operators and tenders 96,000 369,000 26%
11. Grounds maintenance workers 356,000 1,413,000 25%
12. Packers and packagers, hand 119,000 504,000 24%
13. Butchers, poultry and fish processing workers 71,000 305,000 23%
14. Carpet, floor, and tile installers and finishers 68,000 306,000 22%
15. Painters, construction and maintenance 173,000 791,000 22%
16. Parking lot attendants 21,000 100,000 21%
17. Chefs and head cooks 75,000 377,000 20%
18. Sewing machine operators 49,000 248,000 20%
19. Refuse and recyclable material collectors 22,000 112,000 19%
20. Cooks 427,000 2,219,000 19%
When my son was in high school he applied for numerous jobs that included construction demolition, bus boy, lawn mowing, animal care, digging ditches for sprinkler installation & working at fast food eateries. Every time Hispanics were hired instead of him. At least four of these businesses hired non-English speaking Hispanics. Finally he did get hired as a busboy. The other busboys worked very hard but could not communicate with the waitresses, customers, nor management. One business recently told my grandson he could not be hired because he was not the right gender or ethnicity.
How convenient to blame the "non-English speaking Hispanics" and not management who prefers to hire them.
First off, the reasons illegals come here is irrelevant and can't be compared to the legal immigrants that have come here past and present. No one has a right to pursue a better life by breaking laws and taking from others what doesn't belong to them. No one drags them over the border to work here. They are just as guilty as those who hire them.
Yes, jobs are one of the magnets but so are benefits and birthright citizenship for their kids. All of these incentives need to be removed. However, criminals and terrorists are looking for any of those things, thus the wall. It is far better to deter illegals from getting in here in the first place than it is to hunt them down and root them out of our country once they get in here. As for the wall......
Take away their jobs, and the problem will largely go away. "Benefits" and "birthright" aren't enough incentives to keep people coming here. If they can't work to sustain their lifestyle, they will leave (or better yet, stay in their home country).
Everything else you wrote is irrelevant because this is the single biggest thing sustaining the flow of undocumented workers into the US. Take care of that, and you've basically fixed the problem. No stupid F-ing wall required!
Take away their jobs, and the problem will largely go away. "Benefits" and "birthright" aren't enough incentives to keep people coming here. If they can't work to sustain their lifestyle, they will leave (or better yet, stay in their home country).
Everything else you wrote is irrelevant because this is the single biggest thing sustaining the flow of undocumented workers into the US. Take care of that, and you've basically fixed the problem. No stupid F-ing wall required!
One might also note that many of the drug smugglers and coyotes are in fact dual citizens...often US born. Gives them privilege in the business.
Perhaps a review of the views of the authors of the 1986 legislation 20 years later...
Note their observation about proper ID for employment...which has of course never been adopted and which would likely end virtually any formal employment of illegal aliens. Shows that there is still no real consensus to go after employment...the real driver of illegal immigration.
How convenient to blame the "non-English speaking Hispanics" and not management who prefers to hire them.
Why can't you blame both?
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