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The fact is, if your an Illegal Immigrant, you have already committed a Crime. You have no right tostay here, even if you don't commit a second crime. The Law is clear on that, and its not up for discussion or a vote. Legislators do that, not States or Citizens. You either broke the Law or you did not. Its just that plain and simple. .
Its good to see ICE getting a second wind with having Trump as President, and knowing he will stand behind them. Hope to see a lot of protests in California as they haul away bus loads. Hope to see a lot of Protesters in California block every one from moving around, just to see how long the residents there will put up with it. They can get a first hand experience of the consequences of supporting Lawlessness. The longer they allow it the worse I see it getting. Maybe after they get fires, and windows smashed, the public will get tired of it, and do something about it. Maybe the people will throw out their Liberal Leadership and want Law and Order instead. Time will tell, and it will make great TV.
I'm one of those Liberals, with immigrant parents no less, once owned an employment agency that hired lots of Hispanics, participated in the beta eVerify program because our record of not hiring illegal workers was excellent, and...
Of the the nearly 12 million illegal immigrants estimated to be in the country at this time, I really don't have a problem with the police efforts to deport those with criminal records. I also don't have a problem taking appropriate measures to keep illegal immigrants from being in the country illegally in the first place. However, there is a realistic/reasonable manner in which to manage the flow of immigrants to/from America which has been the goal for many years now.
People who tend to lean a bit xenophobic are very typically older white folks (or younger white folks with nationalist tendencies) who have a real penchant for describing illegal immigrants (sometimes legal immigrants too) in the worst of ways, like Trump does, "murderers and rapists." Fact is, however, those are the relative few "bad apples" (very relative few very bad apples) as compared to the many who are here simply to make money, be with family and work for an American business or citizen (see Demographics of Immigrants in the United States below -- learn something).
People Hell bent on branding all these people as criminals and frothing at the mouth to spend money on rounding these people up and shipping them back (only to have them return again) generally ONLY think about these people as serious criminals rather than who they really are, why they are here, and what benefits come from they being here. Hypocrites in many respects, because here is what most of them are doing for us whether we care to recognize these people as such or not, EMPLOYED BY US...
1. Brickmasons, blockmasons, and stonemasons 131,000 325,000 40%
2. Drywall installers, ceiling tile installers and tapers 94,000 255,000 37%
3. Roofers 76,000 246,000 31%
4. Miscellaneous agricultural workers 269,000 910,000 30%
5. Helpers, construction trades 52,000 184,000 28%
6. Dishwashers 101,000 364,000 28%
7. Construction laborers 556,000 2,055,000 27%
8. Maids and housekeepers 417,000 1,555,000 27%
9. Cement Masons, concrete finishers, and terrazzo workers 29,000 109,000 27%
10. Packaging and filling machine operators and tenders 96,000 369,000 26%
11. Grounds maintenance workers 356,000 1,413,000 25%
12. Packers and packagers, hand 119,000 504,000 24%
13. Butchers, poultry and fish processing workers 71,000 305,000 23%
14. Carpet, floor, and tile installers and finishers 68,000 306,000 22%
15. Painters, construction and maintenance 173,000 791,000 22%
16. Parking lot attendants 21,000 100,000 21%
17. Chefs and head cooks 75,000 377,000 20%
18. Sewing machine operators 49,000 248,000 20%
19. Refuse and recyclable material collectors 22,000 112,000 19%
20. Cooks 427,000 2,219,000 19%
Of course these people know they are here illegally, but they also know there is work to be had here and money to be made, so much like many Americans might make money without paying the appropriate amount of taxes (not legal) or pay for Workers Comp insurance (not legal) or smoke pot (not legal) or..., these people choose to come here, be with relatives and make money regardless. Oh my, what a crime that is!
All to say that we are a country ruled by laws, and there is no real excuse to be other than law-abiding as far as most people are concerned. Liberals are law abiding too, but how we apply the law and how we determine what penalty fits the crime becomes the real issue that mostly separates liberal from conservative opinion. That and what ultimately rules the day in terms of business interests.
Let's at least not get too anti-immigrant whether they be legal or illegal while we entice them to come here to work FOR AMERICA COMPANIES/PEOPLE to earn AMERICAN DOLLARS, shall we? We are not a country of hypocrites, or are we?
The entitlement, the arrogance, the lack of respect for the U.S. Constitution & our laws & the U.S. citizens & the selfish/eff you attitude is what makes me not feel badly for those here illegally who get deported.
We have laws for a reason. When someone comes here illegally or over-stays-their permission to be here, they are taking away from the people who live here. They take jobs from us, education, medical resources, placement in college institutions, our tax dollars in the way of food stamps, WIC, free lunches in school, disability benefits, welfare & more. And many illegals send money out of our country to their homeland which is adding to the destruction of our economy.
They have no right to do any of that to us. There is no justification for ignoring our laws or taking our jobs, etc. To say they come here because they know jobs are here is a wilful dismissal of our rights in our own country. They want to come here & use us &; take benefits intended to help our own citizens. Certainly you can understand that that's not right & we resent it.
They don't get to apply the laws as to how it works for them nor do they determine what the consequences will be for breaking the law. This blatant disregard & expectation is some of what angers many.
Then to accuse U.S. citizens of being xenophobic, hypocrites, who are anti-immigrant & don't pay taxes nor provide worker's comp after we enticed them to come here illegally to work for us is an attempt to blame us while minimizing the illegal's crimes. Most of us do not do those things nor feel that way.
We have programs in place that provide for allowing 1.1 million immigrants per year to come to the United States, which is the most generous immigrant policy of any nation. When people are here illegally, it insults & angers those who have followed the law & come here legitimately.
I'm one of those Liberals, with immigrant parents no less, once owned an employment agency that hired lots of Hispanics, participated in the beta eVerify program because our record of not hiring illegal workers was excellent, and...
Of the the nearly 12 million illegal immigrants estimated to be in the country at this time, I really don't have a problem with the police efforts to deport those with criminal records. I also don't have a problem taking appropriate measures to keep illegal immigrants from being in the country illegally in the first place. However, there is a realistic/reasonable manner in which to manage the flow of immigrants to/from America which has been the goal for many years now.
People who tend to lean a bit xenophobic are very typically older white folks (or younger white folks with nationalist tendencies) who have a real penchant for describing illegal immigrants (sometimes legal immigrants too) in the worst of ways, like Trump does, "murderers and rapists." Fact is, however, those are the relative few "bad apples" (very relative few very bad apples) as compared to the many who are here simply to make money, be with family and work for an American business or citizen (see Demographics of Immigrants in the United States below -- learn something).
People Hell bent on branding all these people as criminals and frothing at the mouth to spend money on rounding these people up and shipping them back (only to have them return again) generally ONLY think about these people as serious criminals rather than who they really are, why they are here, and what benefits come from they being here. Hypocrites in many respects, because here is what most of them are doing for us whether we care to recognize these people as such or not, EMPLOYED BY US...
1. Brickmasons, blockmasons, and stonemasons 131,000 325,000 40%
2. Drywall installers, ceiling tile installers and tapers 94,000 255,000 37%
3. Roofers 76,000 246,000 31%
4. Miscellaneous agricultural workers 269,000 910,000 30%
5. Helpers, construction trades 52,000 184,000 28%
6. Dishwashers 101,000 364,000 28%
7. Construction laborers 556,000 2,055,000 27%
8. Maids and housekeepers 417,000 1,555,000 27%
9. Cement Masons, concrete finishers, and terrazzo workers 29,000 109,000 27%
10. Packaging and filling machine operators and tenders 96,000 369,000 26%
11. Grounds maintenance workers 356,000 1,413,000 25%
12. Packers and packagers, hand 119,000 504,000 24%
13. Butchers, poultry and fish processing workers 71,000 305,000 23%
14. Carpet, floor, and tile installers and finishers 68,000 306,000 22%
15. Painters, construction and maintenance 173,000 791,000 22%
16. Parking lot attendants 21,000 100,000 21%
17. Chefs and head cooks 75,000 377,000 20%
18. Sewing machine operators 49,000 248,000 20%
19. Refuse and recyclable material collectors 22,000 112,000 19%
20. Cooks 427,000 2,219,000 19%
Of course these people know they are here illegally, but they also know there is work to be had here and money to be made, so much like many Americans might make money without paying the appropriate amount of taxes (not legal) or pay for Workers Comp insurance (not legal) or smoke pot (not legal) or..., these people choose to come here, be with relatives and make money regardless. Oh my, what a crime that is!
All to say that we are a country ruled by laws, and there is no real excuse to be other than law-abiding as far as most people are concerned. Liberals are law abiding too, but how we apply the law and how we determine what penalty fits the crime becomes the real issue that mostly separates liberal from conservative opinion. That and what ultimately rules the day in terms of business interests.
Let's at least not get too anti-immigrant whether they be legal or illegal while we entice them to come here to work FOR AMERICA COMPANIES/PEOPLE to earn AMERICAN DOLLARS, shall we? We are not a country of hypocrites, or are we?
Yes, it is a violation of our immigration laws to come here illegally, take jobs, resources and taxes from our own citizens but I guess that's no big deal to you? How about the $113 billion a year that they cost us, our overcrowded schools, jails, hospitals, roads and neighborhood? That means nothing to you either? All those jobs you mentioned once were held by Americans for a fair wage until millions of cheap illegals flooded our border but no big deal, right? Just as long as these illegals can feed their families it matters not if our own citizens can't feed theirs, right?
The penalty of violating our immigration laws is deportation. The punishment does fit the crime! Illegal aliens don't benefit regular law abiding Americans they only benefit the cheap that employ them while the rest of us get the shaft. How do Americans get those jobs back and put some respect back into our immigration laws by giving them amnesty? When do these amnesties end? We have annual quotas for legal immigration for good reasons. Legalizing them would negate those sane quotas for years.
Being anti-illegal immigration is not being anti-"immigrant". It isn't "we" who are enticing them to come here but some greedy employers with a wink from our government. I don't care about either of them but my fellow law abiding citizens who are being harmed in all of this. "We" aren't paying for their corruption and negligence anymore!
Yes, it is a violation of our immigration laws to come here illegally, take jobs, resources and taxes from our own citizens but I guess that's no big deal to you? How about the $113 billion a year that they cost us, our overcrowded schools, jails, hospitals, roads and neighborhood? That means nothing to you either? All those jobs you mentioned once were held by Americans for a fair wage until millions of cheap illegals flooded our border but no big deal, right? Just as long as these illegals can feed their families it matters not if our own citizens can't feed theirs, right?
The penalty of violating our immigration laws is deportation. The punishment does fit the crime! Illegal aliens don't benefit regular law abiding Americans they only benefit the cheap that employ them while the rest of us get the shaft. How do Americans get those jobs back and put some respect back into our immigration laws by giving them amnesty? When do these amnesties end? We have annual quotas for legal immigration for good reasons. Legalizing them would negate those sane quotas for years.
Being anti-illegal immigration is not being anti-"immigrant". It isn't "we" who are enticing them to come here but some greedy employers with a wink from our government. I don't care about either of them but my fellow law abiding citizens who are being harmed in all of this. "We" aren't paying for their corruption and negligence anymore!
Obsessively posting untrue data does not advance your cause. The 113 billion is an outright fraud as has been well demonstrated.
LOL I'll just let you troll away..... maybe you can go join the Minute Men or whatever and kill people crossing the border, killer.
Its called free speech and opinion, shared by the Majority. We, on the other hand, aren't going to let the Liberals give our Nation to Illegal Aliens and Criminals, that are invading out Nation, so they can turn it into the Hell Holes they turned their own Countries into. Illegals should have no rights whatsoever, including the Nachor Babies that do not have either Parent thats a Citizen. Maybe Trump can change that in his next 4 years after this term.
No one knows what the correct figures are because there are too many Politically motivated answers and opinions. Regardless of how much its costing us, these people need to be rounded up and deported. If your an Illegal, your Deprt bait, and there is no "If" clause that does not make you less illegal.
Its called free speech and opinion, shared by the Majority. We, on the other hand, aren't going to let the Liberals give our Nation to Illegal Aliens and Criminals, that are invading out Nation, so they can turn it into the Hell Holes they turned their own Countries into. Illegals should have no rights whatsoever, including the Nachor Babies that do not have either Parent thats a Citizen. Maybe Trump can change that in his next 4 years after this term.
Whatever killer. Go kill people as you are in the minority there.
No one knows what the correct figures are because there are too many Politically motivated answers and opinions. Regardless of how much its costing us, these people need to be rounded up and deported. If your an Illegal, your Deprt bait, and there is no "If" clause that does not make you less illegal.
that is not and has never really been the issue.
The issue is that the task is simply too big to be successfully accomplished. It would cost billions and billions take years and years and may not be doable and at the end we have a new huge federal bureaucracy with no purpose as the illegals are all gone..
Everyone who goes on about all the negatives with no recognition of the positives, the economics and/or any understanding as to the true reasons things are the way they are is hardly worth the time, but I make the mistake of trying to balance out the perspective anyway.
No, of course the average American doesn't do all those things that essentially provides the incentives for illegals to come here for work, but OBVIOUSLY all those jobs done by illegals are paid for by American businesses, large and small, (who break those laws in doing so). They too don't care.
Aside from the many more wealthy home-owners who hire these house cleaners and nannies, there are lots of Americans who have their vegetables picked, landscaping done, plumbing, lawns mowed, snow shoveled, meals cooked and restaurant dishes washed by Hispanics, legal and/or illegal -- and these are not jobs "taken" from average Americans! Those are typical notions held by older white Americans who basically have NO CLUE as to what is going on around them in these regards, other than what they hear propagandized to them on their favorite Fox network.
"The business of America is business," and what is done (or not) to address illegal immigration is not a function of what average Joe Americans want or what Trump tells them. It is what the more powerful business interests want that matters, rules the day. Trump gives lip service to all who are equally xenophobic, his supporters love it, while meanwhile nothing really significant is done to change the status quo. Building the big Trump wall provides the perfect visual, but it's all show with little about it that makes sense from a practical game-changing standpoint.
Again, I used to own an employment agency, and my biggest problem with regard to this issue was that my competition was hiring illegal workers without thinking twice, while I was trying to compete by only hiring people legal to work. Anyone wants to be serious about reducing illegal immigration should focus their angst and frustration on employers, those laws and their lack of enforcement, or you are a hypocrite plain and simple. Focus on those efforts, that legislation, the resources required to go after employers, or what is one to assume? Easier to just rail at liberals and illegal immigrants because that's easier? Insult all Hispanics, why, because you don't understand them, but do the employers who hire them to repair your roof?
That or you are simply uninformed and misguided as to the dynamics of what has these people here in American illegally in the first place; their fully legal American employers giving them both cover and money, who certainly do NOT consider them criminals, but rather sometimes even providing them housing...
Most people I know would do EXACTLY the same if they were trying to escape the hardships and poverty of their home country the likes that many Hispanics are dealing with, to find where better to pursue opportunity for themselves and their loved ones. That's pretty much the story of America from the beginning. We are all descendants of immigrants, legal and illegal, who came to America primarily for those same fundamental reasons...
Not to ruin the country but the opposite, at least with hopes the country continues to offer opportunity for all, not just the advantaged and wealthy!
Its called free speech and opinion, shared by the Majority. We, on the other hand, aren't going to let the Liberals give our Nation to Illegal Aliens and Criminals, that are invading out Nation, so they can turn it into the Hell Holes they turned their own Countries into. Illegals should have no rights whatsoever, including the Nachor Babies that do not have either Parent thats a Citizen. Maybe Trump can change that in his next 4 years after this term.
"Majority?"
I think the majority of most reasonable people expect claims such as yours to be substantiated at least to some respectable extent with facts, reason and logic, like the data I provided about who/what illegal immigrants actually represent in terms of the work they do here in America (as compared to describing them all as criminals, "murderers and rapists"). At a minimum, they are not burdens to our society all of them, let alone serious felons. The majority of people appreciate at least a balanced representation of the facts, all the "good, bad and ugly" before concluding what makes for the best public policy all considered.
I hope your opinion and notions do NOT represent the majority of Americans. I don't know of evidence that proves your statement true, since I don't think your comments represent what I think America represents, not our better reasoned values and principles.
Just FYI, my parents escaped a country run by a dictator, immigrated here. They certainly did not "invade our nation, so they can turn it into the Hell Hole" they came from! What a moronic statement. Both my parents did very well here in America, though immigrants, they can write better English than you can given the way you write your comments. They have done better than most Americans in most important respects that just about any American is likely to appreciate if not envy. They raised a good law-abiding family. They and their children who are first generation born Americans are all contributors toward taxes more than government benefits returned to us (high income earners). Bi-lingual. Employed by large companies and also entrepreneurs. I am the first in my family to earn a college degree, then another...
No, not all immigrants and their families do as well, but describe them all as you do, and you are simply displaying the bigotry and ignorance that makes just about anyone prefer an immigrant, legal or illegal, over the "ugly American" you seem to represent!
"Majority?" I sure hope not...
Last edited by LearnMe; 02-12-2017 at 10:21 AM..
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