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Old 05-08-2017, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Constitutional USA, zn.8A
678 posts, read 438,432 times
Reputation: 538

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Health care is not so much a human right, rather it a basic social service that must be in place to have a functional nation.
It's a practical matter as much as a moral issue. Universal health care is essential to maintain the stability and security of the USA.
Without it, we destabilize - just as we have been for decades, as inequities for the access to health care has increased.
Nonsense.
Tying unrelated contexts together does not score points.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:54 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,645,820 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
In primitive societies, when someone was sick, did the elders sit and ponder whether the sick person was entitled to a visit by the shaman or medicine man? No. Do they say "Oh, that person was unwise and didn't save up enough wealth to pay the medicine man so let them die." No, because that person's health and welfare was a concern of the community. Do they complain about the burden of keeping the medicine man available for everyone in the community or the effort it takes to train a new medicine man? No -- it is a given that people have the right to get needed healthcare and that there needs to be a system to provide healthcare TO EVERYONE simply because the community is better off when people are healthy and can be productive and supportive of the whole. So yes, everyone is entitled, by right, to healthcare. That is a basic right going back to primitive societies and it is sad and ridiculous that anyone would call that basic right into question. It isn't in the Bill of Rights or Constitution because nobody was stupid enough to question it. It was, and is, an inalienable right.


The debate should be on how we accomplish universal healthcare, not whether it is a person's right to healthcare. Third world countries have found a way to provide universal healthcare but we can't? It's shameful that we are even asking this question.

But all that does not make it a basic human right. That just makes it a redistribution of wealth.

The only basic human right you have to healthcare, is that in which you administer yourself, or obtain through bargaining of your value to the other party providing it.......
Nothing in life is free, including your life.
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:30 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,469,142 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Yes, I do. Why? Because it's a priority for me.

So it's a priority for you to take subsidies from other taxpayers?
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:41 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,469,142 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
A. Rental properties are "businesses", and owner-occupied are "homes". Businesses are taxed differently than homes.

B. Renters pay NO property taxes, so I'd say it's them that don't pay their "fair share".


Who says rental properties are businesses? For almost 15 years I rented part of a house that was owned by a retired teacher. She had lived in the house during her working years, and when she retired, converted the house to two units and rented them out, while she retired to a nearby rural area.

She never had any profit-maximizing strategy, she was happy to rent below market to stable, long-term tenants. She was happy to break even and collect rent checks while the property continued to appreciate. Her exit strategy was to hold the property until death, so that her adult son could inherit the property with a windfall untaxed capital gain.

In those cases where a rental property is a profit-seeking business, what's the logic? The renter - typically unable to buy a home and therefore financially distressed - is already paying a premium for the inability to buy a home, then there should be a higher property tax on the rented home?

I'm not the one who demands my landlord pay a higher property tax than the owner-occupant next door. Why do homeowners feel so darned entitled?

If renters pay NO property tax, then why shouldn't property taxes on rental property be astronomical?

What about commercial tenants with NNN ('triple net') leases? Do they pay property taxes?
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:43 PM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,144,139 times
Reputation: 13661
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Health care is not so much a human right, rather it a basic social service that must be in place to have a functional nation. It's a practical matter as much as a moral issue. Universal health care is essential to maintain the stability and security of the USA. Without it, we destabilize - just as we have been for decades, as inequities for the access to health care has increased. It's no accident that Japan and China have UHC - it's because those countries have 5, 10 and 20 year plans. We have a plan that extends exactly one fiscal quarter into the future.
Agreed. There are many underdeveloped countries that suffer from low productivity and innovation because too many people are too busy ailing from treatable illnesses to be able to contribute much to society - and all because they can't afford reliable healthcare.

The USA doesn't need to be among them if it doesn't want to.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:12 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,315,035 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post

It's to remind people like you that those rights do exist.
Are you saying money is never spent defending these rights?
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:16 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,315,035 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
It's "shameful" that you think 3rd world hell holes should be models for us to copy. They are 3rd world hell holes for a reason, and CONFISCATION OF PRIVATE PROPERTY IS THAT REASON.
His point went WHOOSH right over your head.

That highlighted section that upset you so much is the equivalent of telling a ten year old that tying his shoes his shoes is so easy, even a five year old could do it. In other words, EVEN third world countries have something we don't IN ADDITION to many first world countries that are performing better than us by every available metric out there.

But keep sticking your head in the sand.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:20 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,315,035 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
A free market capitalist could EASILY come up with a solution, if our economic system remotely resembled a free market.
You people.

Depending on the topic we have a free market that needs protecting or we don't really have a free market, but it would be great if we did.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:22 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,315,035 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaigonPaisa View Post
Lol at this analogy or assertion.

The mother chose to have a kid.

It is her offspring.

Just lol at the voluntary work of rearing a child as the same as taking care involuntarily of strangers.
Paying insurance isn't taking care of strangers. Get off that high horse and stop patting yourself on the back for doing nothing more than paying an insurance premium. Doctors, nurses, therapists, etc. take care of strangers and most do an amazing job of it.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:26 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,488 posts, read 1,644,393 times
Reputation: 4136
Everyone should have free healthcare, and the rich should pay for it in high taxes. Seriously, it's only fair.
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