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Old 05-08-2017, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Constitutional USA, zn.8A
678 posts, read 438,518 times
Reputation: 538

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
So if you as a child grew up in excruciating pain because of no health care,
you think you would still have the same view as you have now?
The only times in my life I've suffered excruciating pain, both as a child & as an adult, were actions medical doctors inflicted on me, including several times Malpractice.


And no, Health-care is not a basic right.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Constitutional USA, zn.8A
678 posts, read 438,518 times
Reputation: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
As a healthcare worker, yes I do.
And in the most developed nation on Earth, there's no excuse for it not to be guaranteed to everyone here.
1. Where is that 'guaranteed health-care' in the Bill of Rights?
&
2. as a professional I worked in the US-system of 'health-care' (actually 'sick management'), &
its history is alarming to anyone with an ounce of morality still left.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,462 posts, read 7,096,830 times
Reputation: 11708
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
Are you happy with the billions in clear profit Phizer gleans/grifts off our healthcare every year?
One thing has nothing to so with the other.

Again....

How much of my labor belongs to you?
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
381 posts, read 643,111 times
Reputation: 527
Questions to ponder for those who oppose Obamacare or single payer down the road:

Why hasn't some brilliant free market capitalist come up with a "free market solution" that drives down costs?

Why do we allow massive insurance companies to dominate the marketplace?

Why can't Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare negotiate prices on prescription drugs?

Why do we allow profit driven companies to own hospitals? Wouldn't not for profit be a better way?
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:42 PM
 
778 posts, read 339,631 times
Reputation: 367
No. Heath care is not a basic human right. Is food a basic human right? Is shelter a basic human right? If you think so, then why are you not petitioning Congress and the President to provide universal food budgets and universal housing?


Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness are the only human rights and I bet you don't even believe that life is a human right.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,462 posts, read 7,096,830 times
Reputation: 11708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
...any your insurance pays??? Unless you pay full price out of pocket, you don't have an argument.
I'm talking about a single payer system, not the current insurance system.

In single payer, the payer gets it's money from the taxpayers whether they consent or not.

Again, how much of my labor belongs to you?

And BTW, thanks to Obamacare, my insurance company did away with all copays..... so yes, until I hit my now quadrupled deductible, I pay for 100% of my healthcare out of pocket.

A simple office visit can cost me up to $200.00

Good enough for you?
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:44 PM
 
778 posts, read 339,631 times
Reputation: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletchman View Post
Questions to ponder for those who oppose Obamacare or single payer down the road:

Why hasn't some brilliant free market capitalist come up with a "free market solution" that drives down costs?

Why do we allow massive insurance companies to dominate the marketplace?

Why can't Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare negotiate prices on prescription drugs?

Why do we allow profit driven companies to own hospitals? Wouldn't not for profit be a better way?
Sorry but that is a false question. The state and federal government regulate the insurance industry so much that there is no such thing as a free market solution to insurance.


If you really wanted to see that happen, you would seek the smallest amount of government intervention into the insurance industry to allow for such innovation to occur.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,462 posts, read 7,096,830 times
Reputation: 11708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletchman View Post
Questions to ponder for those who oppose Obamacare or single payer down the road:

Why hasn't some brilliant free market capitalist come up with a "free market solution" that drives down costs?

Why do we allow massive insurance companies to dominate the marketplace?

Why can't Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare negotiate prices on prescription drugs?

Why do we allow profit driven companies to own hospitals? Wouldn't not for profit be a better way?
Too many palms getting getting greased.

Too much regulation, lobbying and backroom deals.

I like the idea of healthcare co ops myself.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:52 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,093 posts, read 10,762,339 times
Reputation: 31499
In primitive societies, when someone was sick, did the elders sit and ponder whether the sick person was entitled to a visit by the shaman or medicine man? No. Do they say "Oh, that person was unwise and didn't save up enough wealth to pay the medicine man so let them die." No, because that person's health and welfare was a concern of the community. Do they complain about the burden of keeping the medicine man available for everyone in the community or the effort it takes to train a new medicine man? No -- it is a given that people have the right to get needed healthcare and that there needs to be a system to provide healthcare TO EVERYONE simply because the community is better off when people are healthy and can be productive and supportive of the whole. So yes, everyone is entitled, by right, to healthcare. That is a basic right going back to primitive societies and it is sad and ridiculous that anyone would call that basic right into question. It isn't in the Bill of Rights or Constitution because nobody was stupid enough to question it. It was, and is, an inalienable right.


The debate should be on how we accomplish universal healthcare, not whether it is a person's right to healthcare. Third world countries have found a way to provide universal healthcare but we can't? It's shameful that we are even asking this question.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:54 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,080 posts, read 17,043,458 times
Reputation: 30247
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Too many palms getting getting greased.

Too much regulation, lobbying and backroom deals.

I like the idea of healthcare co ops myself.
How about a truly radical idea. Eliminate the deductility of health care premiums to employers. Wipe out health insurance for all but the elderly and catastrophic diseases and conditions? That $5000 a night hospital stay would drop to $200 in no time.
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