Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If slavery had never existed, would there have been a Civil War?
Hard to say, but most likely, the Civil War had less to do with emancipation of slaves as it was about economics between the northern states and the south. The north was more heavily industrialized and more wealthy, of course, then as today, that wealth bought influence and legislation favorable to their businesses. Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War
If we're going to lay our history bare, let's do it right, let's not revise it to fit a current agenda. So, to begin, let's talk about the treatment of "free" black men in the northern states of the pre and post Civil War. The statues and tributes of generals and soldiers of the Confederate forces have as much to do with their sacrifice protecting their right to prosperity against an unfair federal government. To say they represent the enslavement of people to achieve that prosperity is not entirely true. The statues and monuments of the south commemorate the heroes of the Confederacy as much as the statues and monuments of the northern states honor our Civil War heroes, for both of us, it's a part of our heritage. Tearing down those symbols hides a war when American brothers fought and killed each other. I doubt anyone today would find a greater majority of Americans supporting slavery or even justifying it from our past. It's a sad revision of our history.
Last edited by snowtired14; 08-19-2017 at 01:23 PM..
After the War, the North created anther problem. Now the south had a whole new class of of untrained ,uneducated new freed slaves. Part of the issues we have today is there was no action to get Black American Citizens educated and or trained to take on these new freedoms.
Many were lost and return to a form of slavery, share cropping!
I have never claimed that the northern states treated the newly freed slaves well. I know they didn't.
Hard to say, but most likely, the Civil War had less to do with emancipation of slaves as it was about economics between the northern states and the south. The north was more heavily industrialized and more wealthy, of course, then as today, that wealth bought influence and legislation favorable to their businesses. Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War
If we're going to lay our history bare, let's do it right, let's not revise it to fit a current agenda. So, to begin, let's talk about the treatment of "free" black men in the northern states of the pre and post Civil War. The statues and tributes of generals and soldiers of the Confederate forces have as much to do with their sacrifice protecting their right to prosperity against an unfair federal government. To say they represent the enslavement of people to achieve that prosperity is not entirely true. The statues and monuments of the south commemorate the heroes of the Confederacy as much as the statues and monuments of the northern states honor our Civil War heroes, for both of us, it's a part of our heritage. Tearing down those symbols hides a war when American brothers fought and killed each other. I doubt anyone today would find a greater majority of Americans supporting slavery or even justifying it from our past. It's a sad revision of our history.
Well said, and I believe there is a lot of truth in it. However, it doesn't fit the current narrative, and the agenda of the LEFT that wants to use the past practice of slavery as a tool to further subject the white populace to more guilt. The LEFT is currently re-writing history, but also using it to demean Trump, and Trump supporters. They are using Black people, and accusation of RACISM to destabilize our country.
After the War, the North created anther problem. Now the south had a whole new class of of untrained ,uneducated new freed slaves. Part of the issues we have today is there was no action to get Black American Citizens educated and or trained to take on these new freedoms.
Many were lost and return to a form of slavery, share cropping!
The whole 40 acres and a mule lie didn't help things at all
No matter what other issues are dragged in, like states' rights, slavery is always the central argument.
Slavery was the manifestation of the states rights issue.
It is erroneous, I think, to try to divide slavery from states rights.
Although states rights is not equal to slavery, slavery was a manifestation of the states rights issue.
In fact, states rights vs. federal government rights was an issue from the beginning of the formation of the US, and long after the Civil War was fought, and nobody wants to bring slavery back, states rights is still the primary divide in US politics. Half the nation wants a big federal government and the other half wants power to go back to the states.
Last edited by Salmonburgher; 08-21-2017 at 08:22 AM..
The South fought alongside the North to have a government in which they had a voice.
Some eighty years later, they were facing the prospect that the federal government of the United States would make the South's voice irrelevant. That they would again have a government that would make decisions for them without their input.
Democracies, even representative republic democracies, favor urban regions over rural regions.
The South, prior to the Civil War, was providing the bulk of the funding for the federal government. And the tensions over how they were doing this, through tariffs, were very high.
Would you like to pay for a government where your voice doesn't matter? That was what the Revolutionary War was about. Not paying for a government where your voice doesn't matter.
Many of the Confederate soldiers believed that they were re-fighting the American Revolution.
Slavery was the manifestation of the states rights issue.
It is erroneous, I think, to try to divide slavery from states rights.
Although states rights is not equal to slavery, slavery was a manifestation of the states rights issue.
In fact, states rights vs. federal government rights was an issue from the beginning of the formation of the US, and long after the Civil War was fought, and nobody wants to bring slavery back, states rights is still the primary divide in US politics. Half the nation wants a big federal government and the other half wants power to go back to the states.
Good post! The issues that led to the Civil War are complex, as you've accurately noted it was in part due to states rights. Need to remember, Constitutional government was just barely 100 years old and states had more independence in the 1800's. I think part of the current problem is that schools teach a very simple and condensed version of the war, emancipation of slaves, rather than try to teach the complexities that led to it. For most (?) people, their education of the Civil War was very basic, primarily to free the slaves, and anything Confederate was to keep Africans enslaved and want to wipe that heritage from our history. Much easier to use slavery as a tool to impassion activism, than complicated economic problems.
Hard to say, but most likely, the Civil War had less to do with emancipation of slaves as it was about economics between the northern states and the south. The north was more heavily industrialized and more wealthy, of course, then as today, that wealth bought influence and legislation favorable to their businesses. Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War
One more time....
Tariffs were not the cause of the Civil War.
The tariff rates in 1860 were the lowest they had been in decades.
The bulk of federal revenues from tariffs were collected in the North, not the South.
The revenue from tariffs in the late 1850's fell dramatically due to the Panic of 1857 and the resultant economic recession that hit the North hard, but left the agrarian South mostly untouched. This shortfall in federal revenue nearly caused the federal government to default on its debts in 1860.
The Morrill Tariff was passed after secession of the first seven Southern states. The remaining four southern states that seceded did so in direct response to the bombardment of Ft Sumter and the Federal government's subsequent action to put down rebellion.
The Tariff of 1828, aka the Tariff of Abominations, was drafted by Southern politicians in Congress in an attempt to split the Northeast and the Midwest factions. It was designed to be favorable to the Midwestern states, burdensome to the Southern states, and intolerable to the Northeastern states. It backfired when the Northeastern politicians voted for it. And the primary author of the Tariff? John C Calhoun, the South Carolinian who would later foment the Nullification Crisis.
And Snowtired, please throw away that link - it's absolute crap, full of lies.
Good post! The issues that led to the Civil War are complex, as you've accurately noted it was in part due to states rights. Need to remember, Constitutional government was just barely 100 years old and states had more independence in the 1800's. I think part of the current problem is that schools teach a very simple and condensed version of the war, emancipation of slaves, rather than try to teach the complexities that led to it. For most (?) people, their education of the Civil War was very basic, primarily to free the slaves, and anything Confederate was to keep Africans enslaved and want to wipe that heritage from our history. Much easier to use slavery as a tool to impassion activism, than complicated economic problems.
But I don't understand. Mississippi specifically stated their Declaration of Secession their justification for leaving the Union, and it was not complex. Mississippi stated that slavery (A.K.A the Institution) is import to them because their economy depends on it, as slave labor supplies their largest economic product, that is particular to the sub tropical region of Mississippi and the rest of the South, without which world commerce and civilization would fail. Oh, and the black race was better suited to the hot fields than white folk.
"A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union that "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove."
In fact, if you search this page that contains the Declaration of Secession documents from Mississippi, South Carolina, Georgia, Texas and Virginia, the word 'tariff' does not appear once and the word 'taxes' does appear once in South Carolina's statement, in reference to the Constitution burdening them with having to pay direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves. The word 'slave' on the other hand appears 83 times.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The issues that led to the Civil War are complex, as you've accurately noted it was in part due to states rights. Need to remember, Constitutional government was just barely 100 years old and states had more independence in the 1800's. I think part of the current problem is that schools teach a very simple and condensed version of the war, emancipation of slaves, rather than try to teach the complexities that led to it. For most (?) people, their education of the Civil War was very basic, primarily to free the slaves, and anything Confederate was to keep Africans enslaved and want to wipe that heritage from our history. Much easier to use slavery as a tool to impassion activism, than complicated economic problems.
