Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-18-2017, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Georgia
3,987 posts, read 2,109,824 times
Reputation: 3111

Advertisements

Eventually, yes, because the southern states were insisting on going against the Federal gov't. We are seeing that now with states like California and Minnesota. They do what they want- regardless of Federal laws.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-18-2017, 08:12 AM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,179,016 times
Reputation: 18824
There would've been no reason for war.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2017, 08:21 AM
 
28,661 posts, read 18,764,698 times
Reputation: 30933
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
They couldn't.
Maybe, maybe not.


Generally speaking, the sharecropping system in the post-war south was designed to keep sharecroppers from walking away by keeping them in debt.


My great-great grandparents, however, found out how to beat the system in time to make it to the 1889 Oklahoma Land Rush.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2017, 08:22 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,861,612 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Maybe, maybe not.


Generally speaking, the sharecropping system in the post-war south was designed to keep sharecroppers from walking away by keeping them in debt.


My great-great grandparents, however, found out how to beat the system in time to make it to the 1889 Oklahoma Land Rush.
By law, they were legally obligated to their "owner".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2017, 08:25 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
16,911 posts, read 10,582,210 times
Reputation: 16439
It's hard to say. Certainly slavery caused a great deal of division among the States. But the real motivation for the civil war was to return the country to a Confederacy, it's original form of government.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2017, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,853,687 times
Reputation: 101073
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
It's hard to say. Certainly slavery caused a great deal of division among the States. But the real motivation for the civil war was to return the country to a Confederacy, it's original form of government.
I bet the semantics didn't make much difference to those people who were enslaved and owned and denied their most basic human rights.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2017, 09:38 AM
 
8,409 posts, read 7,402,622 times
Reputation: 8747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War

The civil war was largely driven by economics. Northern industrialists and workers wanted to maximize their profits and wages. They did so by discriminatory tariffs on both imported and exported goods. The Northern economy was largely industrial-the south's largely agrarian. The north wanted high import tariffs on manufactured items. This forced up the price of items foreign producers, which were largely purchased by the citizens of southern states. This in turn allowed northern producers to increase the prices of their products sold to southern states.

At the same time, the north, particularly the textile industry was dependant on cotton produced in the south. They wanted it at the lowest possible prices. So, to ensure that-they passed an EXPORT tariff on cotton. This artificially inflated the prices foreign purchasers would have to pay for the product, which in turn forced southern producers to lower their prices to remain competitive. Which, in turn, meant that northern producers could also buy these products at the new, artificially low prices (without of course paying the export tariff).

While northern states had far more voting residents (especially so since southern slaves were not allowed to vote under the US constitution), they had the power to pass such tariffs in the house. However, since the founding fathers allowed each state 2 senators and the number of states was approximately equal, such bills would not pass the senate. The influence of the admission of new states into the union would skew that balance one way or the other.

Slavery was a fundamental tool of the south's economic engine-agriculture. Want to destroy the south's political power? Weaken their economy. Lets face it-the north couldn't rally a lot of support for a civil war with a stated motive of "high tariffs". It would have been seen as simple greed. However, when you can rally people behind abolishing slavery and claim a moral high ground...it is much higher to recruit support. The northern media, then, like now, were highly influential in duping citizens to support violence and war...in the name of profits.
Toyman, I congradulate you on a well written, polished post.

I regret to inform you that it is completely incorrect.

You claim that the "north" passed an EXPORT tariff on cotton, with the result that southerners were forced to sell cotton at lower prices.

United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 5 - "No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State".

There was no "EXPORT tariff" on cotton passed by "the north" because any export tariff is unconstitutional.

Now, to address import tariffs, which you claim as the other side of the economic reasons that the South seceded, there are two facts of which you are either completely unaware or are completely ignoring.

In 1860, the import tariffs were so low that the federal government nearly had to default on it's debts. The North had been hit with the Panic of 1857. The resultant economic downturn severely suppressed imports, resulting in crashing federal tax revenue. The South, being an agrarian-based economy, barely felt the economic fall-out.

In 1860, federal tax revenue was almost completely collected via import tariffs. The amount collected in 1860 is a matter of public record. It's also a matter of public record that two thirds of all import taxes were collected in the Port of New York City. Additionally, the major ports in the United States were nearly all in the North in 1860, only New Orleans, LA and Charleston, SC could be considered major ports - and they lagged behind Boston and Philadelphia, and far, far behind New York. Notice here, the import taxes, which you claimed "were largely purchased by the citizens of southern states" were actually paid mostly by northern consumers.

Import and Export Taxes simply aren't a valid reason for Southern secession in 1860. That concept seems to have been invented by confederate apologists sometime after the Civil War had ended; that myth has persisted ever since, and seems immune to established and verifiable fact.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2017, 09:41 AM
 
8,409 posts, read 7,402,622 times
Reputation: 8747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
If slavery had never existed, would there have been a Civil War?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibginnie View Post
Yeppers!
Yes, but why would there have been a Civil War?

That's the implied question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2017, 09:44 AM
 
20,457 posts, read 12,373,731 times
Reputation: 10250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
If slavery had never existed, would there have been a Civil War?
Here you go. this is from a conservative organization that puts out brilliant videos on all kinds of topics.


This one is about the cause of the Civil War. The cause was slavery. period. there is no question. that is not a revisionist position. Every single Session Document stated clearly the individual states succeeded over slavery. period.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcy7qV-BGF4
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2017, 09:47 AM
 
18,560 posts, read 7,362,427 times
Reputation: 11372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
If slavery had never existed, would there have been a Civil War?
That doesn't mean it was about slavery. The secession of various states had a lot to do with slavery, but the Union's decision to start a war did not. Lincoln had no interest in ending slavery; he just wanted to preserve the Union.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top