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Representatives are voted into power in the U.S. we are a republic, so if our representatives present something that means we voted for it. Even if you may not have voted for it, that is how our democracy works.
Cute, I did not think there was anyone out there that still believes that Reps do what we wanted instead of the special interest groups that provide the suitcases full of money. Hold on to your innocence as long as you can, it will be ripped away from you soon enough.
And as far as particulate (soot) went on properly tuned trucks, there were no rolling clouds of black smoke, not even so much as a slight haze from the exhaust. Whether the truck had stacks out of the bed, or a single 3-6 inch tip exiting the right rear, there was no soot depositing on the paint. Again, a more cleaner combustion event, a cleaner exhaust.
It can be done without having all the added on emissions BS. Longevity would improve. Maintenance costs would be lower. Repairs would be almost non existent. We're talking modern common rail piezo injector systems. Not old school distributor style injection pumps with a set dwell for an average range of ideal performance. Talking very intricate systems, with modern day high speed processors in power train control modules that utilize inputs from sensors to output state control devices, if this exists, do that on the fly instantaneously.
Barometric pressure sensors, intake temperature sensors, ambient air temperature sensors, Mass air flow sensors, Manifold Absolute Pressure sensors, crank and camshaft sensors, high pressure fuel injection pumps with pressure and volume control valves, fuel rail pressure sensors...
You alter the factory tuning... you can grab more MPG, Much more horsepower and torque. I've taken stock output 300-350 hp 500-550 ft lbs output and got them into the 500-800hp range with anywhere from 800-1400 ft lbs of torque range. And they didn't scatter either. They didn't roll coal either. They would go from low to mid/high teens of miles per gallon to mid 20mpg range. For 8-10k pound trucks with aerodynamics of a brick.
And a negligible increase in tail pipe emissions. Very negligible.
You could pull a house off its foundation. Outrun mustangs and camaros. Run low 10 second quarter mile times. No rolling black cloud of death. Just heat waves were visible from the exhaust. Especially when turbochargers were altered. Change the compressor and turbine wheels with a different profile, or larger housings... sure they'd sound like a jet as they spooled up. But they were more efficient and yielded far more power gains over what the factory turbo(s) were capable of...
It was when you would throw ridiculous injectors that you would get a haze. The way around that was to ramp up the injection pressure and cut back on the volume, then ramp up the VGT to increase boost pressure. 6.0s and 7.3s you were limited with what you could do with the IPR and high pressure oil system. Although the 6.0 was far more tuner friendly. Problem with a raised ICP pressure was a lope at idle, which had to be countered by raising the idle to about 900-1200rpm which required the manipulation of cold high idle to drop the rpm when the brake pedal was applied so you weren't smoking the clutches and bands and destroying planetaries universals in driveshafts from shock. The 6.0 you could tune the trans control module, 6.4 and 6.7 as well. 7.3 not so much... very limited to what you could with a dumb pcm and IDM. All that thing really knew was look for cam signal, look at oil pressure, manipulate IPR to gain or bleed ICP pressure dependant upon load, use cam signal to sneeze injectors.
Adjust waste gate per what MAP readings and engine rpm were to correspond what was desired. They were very basic and dumb. Run forever though.
Old trick used to be skew the MAP readings with a resistor along the circuit to fool the PCM into believing boost pressure was lower than what it really was to allow for more boost. Wouldn't flag a code either. Try it on a 6.0 or 6.4 check engine light and p0299 turbo underboost would come up. Factory parameters see a lack in pressure and depending on what software update was in the PCM, would either cut back fuel and derate to prevent black smoke (which used to be common when a CAC tube blew off the intercooler or turbo) or try and compensate for the lack of boost pressure. But the engineers went with derate output by corresponding the Exhaust back pressure, MAP and MAF readings. Then later ditching the EBP reading from strategy as a hypothetical sensor reading. Those sensors used to short out internally on the VREF signal that was tied in with the throttle pedal. You'd get a forced idle. Unplug EBP sensor Rev to the moon. Plug it back in, forced idle.
Electric would pose new and expensive issues. Now you're talking resistance from corrosion. Which may not be a big deal for most of California but definitely along the salt water coast.
An expensive infrastructure to power it and supply power to recharge batteries.
The need of rare earth materials to form batteries. Then that whole... Supply vs demand thing...
Don't get me wrong. Brushless motors are awesome. Instant power/torque output.
Problem will be with viable range and charging times. There's really the biggest issue. High amperage and voltage to make charging faster, or would it be stop at the Mobil Getty Shell station and swap a hefty battery pack pay $x and go?
Then there's the new emissions that come with electric motors-OZONE.
That funny metallic taste/smell that you get in the back of your throat from a cordless drill. That's ozone. Would California force the implementation of a catalyst on an electric motor? Like they wanted to do with cow farts...that one would have been hilarious. Seeing a catalytic converter shoved up a cow/bull behind because cow farts are environmentally unfriendly.
LOL per the article a shorter distance and 50% higher upfront cost with negligible distance. Just as I suspected. Couple that with a low availability on lithium... high costs of lithium, the added weight of the battery packs over fuel tanks... you've cut the vehicles capacity. It's a negligible trade my friend... bigly...
The future isn't in electric big rigs.
Here's another legitimate challenge. You're trading one form of fuel for another. Electric bills are going to skyrocket with an all electric vehicle transit system.
Per your article they talk of the added weight of the battery and electric motor system... thus reducing the trucks capacity for towing/hauling, that's negligible. Severely. That's going backwards. May as well go back to the days of flat nosed peterbilts and old iron lung cummins and 2 stroke detroits... Reduced mileage, reduced capability, reduced power. Still would be cheaper than going lithium ion...
By the time any such "ban" could be imposed the majority of car would already be running on alternative fuel sources. Thing is some people make the mistake of thinking that running out and selling a perfectly good running gas or diesel vehicle is going green, they seem to forget that the plant that builds the alternative fuel vehicle will up their greenhouse gas output through more production of vehicles and the original vehicle is still on the road. If one wants to go with an alternative vehicle when their current vehicle is ready for the junkyard than that is fine, but to do it early has the opposite impact, think about the entire picture instead of the kneejerk reaction so many tend to operate on.
It's very easy to retrofit gasoline to run on E85. Even with carburetors. The project truck I'm building should be around 800hp and run exclusively on E85.
Tuning the carburetor and distributor will be a breeze. Just a matter of finding ethanol friendly materials that don't get corroded or damaged.
Very easy to convert diesel to run on waste vegetable or waste engine oil too...
Cost depends on systems used. Fair warning if you go the veggiestroke route... stay away from fish fry joints, your exhaust will reek like a fish market. Stick to standard fast food joints. Then it will reek like French fries and burgers.
And don't forget to switch back to diesel for the last 5 miles of your trip or have a turbo timer type system that idles on diesel. Cooking oil gels up quicker than diesel in cooler environments. As long as you have routed a coolant line from your heater core to your alternative tank with a coil inside the tank to keep the veggie oil from thickening up, and along the coolant line and close to a hot engine you won't have to worry about injector failures come winter time.
There is no shortage of lithium in the world, so if demand for it increases they'll just mine more and the price will go down.
I actually agree electric trucks have a while to go before they become as useful as electric cars, but like everything else they'll get better over time. The legislation proposed in CA isn't making the requirement for trucks anyway, just cars.
Yes, of course electric bills will go up. Gasoline bills will go down. Everybody knows that. The point is to decrease air pollution and CO2 emissions. With more consumption of electricity and less of gasoline, you have more control over emissions because electricity can be produced with minimal or no emissions (solar, wind, hydroelectric, etc) whereas gasoline is guaranteed to have emissions.
There is no shortage of lithium in the world, so if demand for it increases they'll just mine more and the price will go down.
I actually agree electric trucks have a while to go before they become as useful as electric cars, but like everything else they'll get better over time. The legislation proposed in CA isn't making the requirement for trucks anyway, just cars.
Yes, of course electric bills will go up. Gasoline bills will go down. Everybody knows that. The point is to decrease air pollution and CO2 emissions. With more consumption of electricity and less of gasoline, you have more control over emissions because electricity can be produced with minimal or no emissions (solar, wind, hydroelectric, etc) whereas gasoline is guaranteed to have emissions.
Electric motors produce ozone.
Go run a cordless drill and sniff the vent. That metallic smell/taste. Is ozone.
You're transitioning from one form of pollution to another. And going about it entirely wrong.
Key point. You're electric grid. Going nuclear to support a grid that big? Solar has to become far more efficient than current to support that infrastructure and demand.
What to do with the nuclear waste? Depleted uranium anti tank/armor rounds to dispose in foreign lands? Or bury it in old salt mines?
Missing the obvious- develop an implement to filter the air, using revenue collected from vehicle registration fees, and fuel taxes to engineer operate and maintain.
I promise that would be more efficient than mining all of the lithium in the world with the hope of it being cheaper, plus upgrading the grid and building said grid with other metals to conduct electricity... or are you going teslas route with tesla coils to distribute electricity to lightning rods frying anything grounded?
I'm not trying to be snarky... I'm stating an obvious problem with this proposed utopia.
Look. You already complain on sending the youth to far away countries to secure cheaper oil... condemn drilling in preserved areas. You'd be naive to think the same wouldn't happen to lithium that's already happened to oil...
Further proving my point. California is missing out on doing something actually productive to combat emissions. Like I said... I'm not bashing you, I'm bashing this belief that an entire electrical transit system is all its cracked up to be. You merely trade one form of pollution for another, and cause a significant increase in waste elsewhere. Should be obvious the best approach would be to develop and utilize implements to clean the air in the LA basin than to go willy nilly on a lithium and copper mining spree hoping foreign lands won't pay attention and adjust prices based on American consumer need.
Heck if I were a lithium rich country... I'd be as opportunist as possible. You want lithium and I have literally tons of it... tell you what. Give me nukes. Give me 100k per ton, give me your military hardware and training and maybe that 100k per ton can go down to 500 bucks per ton
Edit to add: What happens when the next big earthquake rocks California and destroys that grid? Who pays for that? Californians or the Fed? There were many posters here who showed their disdain for Texas and Florida getting hurricane relief. Same posters who also attack Trump "for not doing anything" in Puerto Rico. Hypocrites much???
Seriously though. Who would pay to reconstruct a grid system whether destroyed by wild fires or earthquake?
Cute, I did not think there was anyone out there that still believes that Reps do what we wanted instead of the special interest groups that provide the suitcases full of money. Hold on to your innocence as long as you can, it will be ripped away from you soon enough.
Truth!
If it hasn't become more obvious now than ever...
Republican representatives tell us "we need both houses to repeal obama care!" They get it. "We need both houses and the white house to repeal obama care!" They get it.
Nothing. If I were them. I'd have at least had a proposed plan for 7 1/2 years.
That's okay, I paid attention to who is a Republican and who's a republicant establishment swamp rat.
On that matter I just want it repealed and go back to how things once were. Address those who can't afford it on a separate bill separate issue. Not spread the debt in the premise that every American is required and mandated to have health insurance.
By the time any such "ban" could be imposed the majority of car would already be running on alternative fuel sources. Thing is some people make the mistake of thinking that running out and selling a perfectly good running gas or diesel vehicle is going green, they seem to forget that the plant that builds the alternative fuel vehicle will up their greenhouse gas output through more production of vehicles and the original vehicle is still on the road. If one wants to go with an alternative vehicle when their current vehicle is ready for the junkyard than that is fine, but to do it early has the opposite impact, think about the entire picture instead of the kneejerk reaction so many tend to operate on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas
Cute, I did not think there was anyone out there that still believes that Reps do what we wanted instead of the special interest groups that provide the suitcases full of money. Hold on to your innocence as long as you can, it will be ripped away from you soon enough.
Mr. Caspeas (I have a cat named "Casper" and this is what I call him, so yes, I had to), very well said on both posts.
If it hasn't become more obvious now than ever...
Republican representatives tell us "we need both houses to repeal obama care!" They get it. "We need both houses and the white house to repeal obama care!" They get it.
Nothing. If I were them. I'd have at least had a proposed plan for 7 1/2 years.
That's okay, I paid attention to who is a Republican and who's a republicant establishment swamp rat.
On that matter I just want it repealed and go back to how things once were. Address those who can't afford it on a separate bill separate issue. Not spread the debt in the premise that every American is required and mandated to have health insurance.
Think we staying a bit off topic here, but since you brought it up, we cannot go back to where we were before ACA, that world simply does not exist any longer, meaning far too many businesses drop their coverage plans saying that people had another choice, of-course while neglecting to give any of those savings to the employees. Nope, we need to move forward on better ways to deal with the issue, ACA is not the final answer and neither is that Bill the Repubs have tried passing twice now, more work to be done, now we just have to find people to do it.
Think we staying a bit off topic here, but since you brought it up, we cannot go back to where we were before ACA, that world simply does not exist any longer, meaning far too many businesses drop their coverage plans saying that people had another choice, of-course while neglecting to give any of those savings to the employees. Nope, we need to move forward on better ways to deal with the issue, ACA is not the final answer and neither is that Bill the Repubs have tried passing twice now, more work to be done, now we just have to find people to do it.
My point backed yours in that elected representatives regardless of politics do not work for us voters but answer to a higher power... and that it's obvious now more than ever. If you believe otherwise, you are plain naive...
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