Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Slo - your points about possible dementia are well-taken but a reader gets the impression that your view is, 'oh well, too bad, people are just going to have to suffer being accosted by an oldster with dementia who is inclined that way.'
Is that your view?
My opinion is that it's still no excuse. Rather the responsibility burden has then shifted to his caretakers to prevent it. If they can't keep him away from close proximity of females when in public, then don't take him out. That's life, too bad for him. No one has the responsibility to endure being physicially "handled".
My view is that if it is dementia related, then they have no control. If you have ever experienced it or seen what happens to primary care givers with loved ones in that state of mind you might be more empathetic. It is a totally different animal. When you are dealing with that state of mind in elder care you are taught to never take their behavior personally. It can be very erratic and completely out of their normal character. Its not a matter of him being a dirty old man.
The issue is not that Bush was not wrong. It is whether all such offenses are horrible felonies.
I would think Bush's actions were a minor infraction of the social code. Nothing remotely criminal.
We need some gradient between a whack on the backside and drugged or physically forced rape.
Using a widely broad category such as "'sexual assault" has the effect of reducing the Cosby crimes to be equivalent to those of a social infraction.
So yes both should not occur. But we should not confuse the different levels with a common term.
Yes, while the intent may be to inflate Bush's infractions to the level of criminal activity for the sake of female empowerment, that is the unintended result.
3rd woman comes forward. This one said he squeezed her butt hard. This occurred in 2014 at a fundraiser.
"'You wanna know my favorite book?” he whispered. I had to lean close to hear him," Kline wrote.
President Bush put his arm around me, low on my back. His comic timing was impeccable. 'David Cop-a-feel,' he said, and squeezed my butt, hard, just as the photographer snapped the photo. Instinctively, I swiped his hand away,"
You need to go back and read the meaning of "force" as explained in the NJ jury instructions for the charge. And it does not require just sexual enjoyment, but that OR other things, and nowhere does it say sexual enjoyment must be physical or visible.
Both the CA and NJ statutes apply to this scenario. Any defenses that come up also could, but to pretend that his actions don't fall under these statutes is ridiculous.
It is not humorous to touch someone's butt without their consent. She was a stranger to him. I'm not going to crucify the guy, I was disappointed to hear this because I liked him, but people need to recognize that this plainly is not okay. Even if people do this intending to be humorous, they need to stop. Now.
If a man exposes his penis to young girls, no erection, just his penis, multiple times, is that not a crime because there is no erection or ejaculation at that moment that they can see? That's what your logic is saying. The definitions of sexual gratification, etc., are no different for that charge.
Cite your jury instruction. Note such things are not law and do not hold up well until their is appellate decision. But cite it. I would note one of the earmarks of a charlatan is to quote non existing authority. The CA law
Humorous and proper are not mutually exclusive. I find the joke told infantile but some do fine that funny.
Your changing the subject. Exposing of genitalia comes under a different set of laws - indecent exposure. It could well rise to sexual assault if contact is made. Also much more complicated to prove then you make out as again intent raises its ugly head. And if it is a younger brother waving his penis at his sister and girl friends he would likely walk. You have to have some sexual intent. Driving your sister up the wall does not make it. Real by the way...many many years ago. KY hillbillies. Daddy though it funny. Mommy whacked him across the genitalia with a switch. Stopped that.
What Bush did was a crime--sexual assault. In all likelihood it wouldn't result in a prison sentence--even if prosecuted successfully, but that does not change the fact that it was criminal conduct.
Please...
Quote:
People are entirely capable of differentiating between Bush's conduct, Woody Allen's conduct, Bill Cosby's conduct, and Harvey Weinstein's conduct. You are fretting over a non-issue.
People are capable of that, which is why they will begin to take the term "sexual assault" less seriously if it is routinely used to describe behavior that may be rude but is clearly not criminal conduct.
We sell houses in a mature adult community. Know what the mean time to be without a female companion for a man who loses a long term wife? It is amazing to watch. Never goes past 90 days until there is a new women in the house. Even among the couple of guys who I thought would not survive losing their wifes. One was shacked up in 6 weeks.
And the ladies have a jungle telegraph that transmits the news of an eligible man. Mostly it is the friends of the departed wife who score...they know the target.
In my own case I was widowed in my early 40s. I was a VP of a Fortune 100 company. Had a nice house in S. CA and a red Mustang convertible. Stepped over the offerings in front of me for a couple of years. And I was difficult. I had four ladies at home from late teens to early 20s. Ever tried to date a guy whose house is often filled with a dozen late teens early twenty females. But the daughters and friends under stood the rules and would vanish appropriately.
And my daughters still tell stories on some of my female friends.
So don't ever get the thought that only the males are difficult. Long range the females are much more the predator . And let me clue you some grab you by genitals. We guys do have an advantage. I could pick up a 140 lb. female and stuff her in a garbage can if she would not play nice. But the theory is the same.
after seeing that this is something that he has done more than once or twice, i have changed my mind. this is not ok. the joke that he tells clearly goes along with his little butt pat or squeeze or whatever he does. he may honestly think he is just being funny and see nothing wrong with it, but the people around him know this is not ok and will make women feel very uncomfortable.
i'm a bit surprised that they continue to let him near women for a photo like this when they know he is very likely to do it to them too. i think if he did it to me i would laugh it off and just think what a creepy dirty old man, because he really doesn't feel like a threat to me at all. i would be telling people, but probably wouldn't want to go public with it. it would have to be something a little worse for me to get the nerve to do that.
BUT i completely understand someone else feeling differently about it and i think this should be brought out into the open if that is what they feel they need to do. his "handlers" really should not let him around women for photo ops anymore. and why the heck is barbara just shrugging it off. i don't know how long he has been doing this. it's very weird...
He has most likely lost his mind I know an old guy in RL similar to him. He never did anything like that 8 years ago but now is known to get a little too touchy feely and dirty old manish from time to time.
My view is that if it is dementia related, then they have no control. If you have ever experienced it or seen what happens to primary care givers with loved ones in that state of mind you might be more empathetic. It is a totally different animal. When you are dealing with that state of mind in elder care you are taught to never take their behavior personally. It can be very erratic and completely out of their normal character. Its not a matter of him being a dirty old man.
i do agree with this. if he is having signs of dementia, then this really isn't his fault.
i have a friend whose mom is in full blown alzheimers. it is really sad to see. she is like a child now. a toddler who mumbles and every once in a while speaks a recognizable word. she pretty much just sits in her wheelchair and looks around and smiles sometimes, but who knows what she is smiling about.
if bush is headed down this road then it is very sad.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yeah the Ladies are Funny..
