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One thing I have to be vigilant for are those who are trying so hard to defend "refuse service to whomever we please". With the evolution of race relations in America, the first thing that comes to my mind is "Let me guess, said person wants the days of Jim Crow to come back".
The thing about guns and making sure they don't end up in the hands of thugs, that is what background checks are for. This "vigilantism" is not necessary. If a criminal wants a gun, he or she will get it through illegal means. It is ironic that some of the very persons who claim "we need more guns" are siding with the gun store owner.
How so? Gun owners are typically the ones who advocate for strict enforcement of the laws regarding gun crimes and illegally owned guns.
One thing I have to be vigilant for are those who are trying so hard to defend "refuse service to whomever we please". With the evolution of race relations in America, the first thing that comes to my mind is "Let me guess, said person wants the days of Jim Crow to come back".
The thing about guns and making sure they don't end up in the hands of thugs, that is what background checks are for. This "vigilantism" is not necessary. If a criminal wants a gun, he or she will get it through illegal means. It is ironic that some of the very persons who claim "we need more guns" are siding with the gun store owner.
Whats funny about the right to refuse service, tell me why a black bar in my area has a sign that says, "we serve no one under 30" Why?
In some cases, yes. However, I would never be able to confirm without a background check. If you are a gun shop owner, you have a way of confirming if someone is a risk to public safety. It's called a background check. Gun stores can do that.
Smelling of alcohol is an obvious sign of not being right. Being a bigot is an obvious issue. With the man who refused to sell a gun to another person, he didn't give a reason other than "I don't know you won't sell it to a criminal". If said person wanted to confirm the possibility of that happening, that is what a background check is for.
You do and you don't. The background check isn't going to show a mental patient under treatment or someone who does have a clean record but is acting suspiciously.
AS I said before, I haven't seen what the gun shop owner has to say, only 1 side of it. I am not saying the customer is a liar or that he wasn't wronged. I need to see the other side's story before I make a judgement.
I just know that in todays climate of nut job shooters, straw purchases, etc. that all gunshot owners should be allowed to error on the side of safety.
If the gun shop owner turns out to be a racist I hope he faces the music for it.
I don't, it says it right there in the quote, neither do you. I even said it may well be racially motivated, but it's not the only motivation, and he doesn't have to give a reason. However until you remove BATFE regs that can punish dealers for making sales to buyers that then commit certain illegal activities there's nothing you can do.
How many times have we heard that person X (who just shot up the neighborhood) shouldn't have been sold that (or those) gun (s) by the dealer that sold them to him even after a clean BGC? Then the families all get together and try to sue the dealer. Well duh, of course dealers are going to get defensive and deny sales for reasons fair and unfair.
If you don't like that, then campaign against dealers having some weird legally grey liability for what is sold by them after the new owner leaves the store. It's not like bakers hold any responsibility for mass pieings, or car dealers hold any responsibility for selling getaway cars. Dealers sell guns, they follow regs, don't like it change the regs, and limit their liability because if reduced discretion.
That is EXACTLY the problem. Firearms dealers are held to standards no other business in the country is held to. The very people here that are whining "racism" are some of the very same ones that attack gun dealers who sell multiple guns to the same person, or to sell them to people that in turn go and resell them to the criminal element.
That is EXACTLY the problem. Firearms dealers are held to standards no other business in the country is held to. The very people here that are whining "racism" are some of the very same ones that attack gun dealers who sell multiple guns to the same person, or to sell them to people that in turn go and resell them to the criminal element.
Well, I've never attacked gun dealers. I've always attacked the people doing the shooting.
You do and you don't. The background check isn't going to show a mental patient under treatment or someone who does have a clean record but is acting suspiciously.
AS I said before, I haven't seen what the gun shop owner has to say, only 1 side of it. I am not saying the customer is a liar or that he wasn't wronged. I need to see the other side's story before I make a judgement.
I just know that in todays climate of nut job shooters, straw purchases, etc. that all gunshot owners should be allowed to error on the side of safety.
If the gun shop owner turns out to be a racist I hope he faces the music for it.
Well, the thing is, issues like discrimination have never gone away. I am ever-vigilant about it because it could be me who is subjected to it.
And I know about today's climate of nut jobs. When has there never been nut jobs and mass murderers? And the way I see it, if a store says "I don't have to tell you why", said person is hiding something.
I also see it from this angle. People ought to be able to defend themselves. That is what a gun is for.
How many victims of gun violence have successfully sued either gun store owners or gun manufacturers? As far as I am aware, they're a protected class of sorts, or at the least shielded from accountability.
Have there been any successful lawsuits on behalf of victims?
I don't know to be honest. What I do know is that several were driven out of business from lawsuits in relation to guns sold by them that were completely legal and above board sales.
Further I know of a number of others that have had licenses suspended during investigation of customer activities.
You want it both ways, you want dealers to hold the gates closed enough to provide some protection against unsafe sales. AND you want discretion removed from gun dealers. One or the other you can't have both.
Well, I've never attacked gun dealers. I've always attacked the people doing the shooting.
Personally, I think folks who have unrealistic expectations of gun owners, those who encourage 'good guy with a gun' fantasies of vigilantism as opposed to attempting plausible & pragmatic options to decrease the damages have a tendency to have the same kind of unrealistic expectations when it comes to gun store owners.
I don't know to be honest. What I do know is that several were driven out of business from lawsuits in relation to guns sold by them that were completely legal and above board sales.
Further I know of a number of others that have had licenses suspended during investigation of customer activities.
You want it both ways, you want dealers to hold the gates closed enough to provide some protection against unsafe sales. AND you want discretion removed from gun dealers. One or the other you can't have both.
Who wants it both ways? I think it's ludicrous to have such unrealistic expectations of gun store owners. They're no different than anyone else.
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