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Old 01-23-2018, 08:19 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
You guys should realize that at 50 cents per watt, a 30% tariff only makes that panel cost another 15 cents/watt, right?

If you are putting in a 5kW system, that is going to cost you a whopping $750.

Meanwhile the installer is bending you over backwards charging obscene lease and loan fees, because you're too stupid to buy the system outright.
If you Took China out of the solar business from the start, panels would much higher in cost today. Competition does that sort of thing.

Our residential panels would cost about $2600 more today just based on the tariff.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:20 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
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Originally Posted by serger View Post
How about your tv(s) or phone(s), do you care where they were manufactured?
Solar is the best of conservative targets.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:41 AM
 
30,168 posts, read 11,803,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
If you Took China out of the solar business from the start, panels would much higher in cost today. Competition does that sort of thing.

Our residential panels would cost about $2600 more today just based on the tariff.
Competition is fine however if one country can dominate entire sectors because the underpay their workers and manipulate currencies that is not competition.

There is more to look at than just cost. I would rather pay more if our workers are employed to make the products, whether it be solar or toasters or anything else. And I am all for solar.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:52 AM
 
8,059 posts, read 3,946,325 times
Reputation: 5356
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
It seems though that in this case -- Trump is trying to protect 2 companies.

Most companies that produced solar panels finally gave up and focused on the installation and servicing of these panels.

That sector -- given that most companies have decided to let Chinese have the production market -- has still had job growth that is 17 times FASTER than the rest of the US economy.

Trump is pandering to 2 companies with the solar panels and one company with the washing machines.

I will repeat that overwhelmingly it has been proven that tariffs rarely have the gains that are intended and have always ended up with fewer choices and more cost for consumers.

It is what it is. History can't be rewritten on that .

Why is Trump - like the tax credit -- implementing all these policies that really favor the corporate world at a time that corporations don't need bailing out by the govt.

I am not a total libertarian in that I do think sometimes govt. can try to promote growth industries or help during economic down times. That's just my personal view.

But during a boom market -- which we are suppose to be in as Trump reminds us every day - why so much focus on giving corporations more deals.

Right now we are HOPING that all this pandering to corporations may trickle down but if evidence of the last 40 years is any indicator -- those CEO's are gong to share their wind falls with their 'employees' very sparingly. Sure sure -- after Trump handed them all those tax cuts they made grand gestures paying out bonuses and raising minimum wages claiming the tax credits were the reason . If you don't think that was for show and for more hand outs, you are naive.

Some will say -- but it is all good -- even if they throw pennies at us -- it is all good. But is it. Will it make the middle class grow? Will the gap between the middle class and the rich continue to expand exponentially.......

I think the middle class will continue to shrink as our costs go up and we get the scraps thrown out as bait for more incentives for the corporations and their CEO's.

And be clear -- I'm all for free market economy. Capitalism is the way to go. But is it true capitalism when the government favors the businesses.
What happens to that job growth when China corners the market on solar panels and starts dictating prices?
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:05 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwinkelman View Post
Competition is fine however if one country can dominate entire sectors because the underpay their workers and manipulate currencies that is not competition.

There is more to look at than just cost. I would rather pay more if our workers are employed to make the products, whether it be solar or toasters or anything else. And I am all for solar.
Any country can do what it wants.

We do what we want.

If it costs more to buy the same product as a result of less competition, along with taxes and tariffs, then individuals make a choice.

Tariffs which are simply directed taxes to push consumers toward a US made choice. They are necessarily inflationary.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:07 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
What happens to that job growth when China corners the market on solar panels and starts dictating prices?
China already did. We lost solar panel manufacturing jobs and gained install jobs. While consumers enjoyed lower prices.

China will now sell more of their solar panels to India and other countries.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:20 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,068,169 times
Reputation: 17865
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:21 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,068,169 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Town FFX View Post
Exactly, Installers far out number the producers. It's a hit at renewable energy proposed under the guise of protecting US jobs.
Is the plumber who installs a coal boiler counted as someone in the coal industry? If you want to start adding in all the the jobs the coal mining industry supports it's going to be a very long list.

The numbers they are using for this comparison is highly suspect. Is a lobbyist working for BP's solar division a solar job?
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:23 AM
 
8,059 posts, read 3,946,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
China already did. We lost solar panel manufacturing jobs and gained install jobs. While consumers enjoyed lower prices.

China will now sell more of their solar panels to India and other countries.
China won't be selling more panels to India... India is imposing a new 70% tariff on China's solar panel dumping.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Boston
20,111 posts, read 9,023,728 times
Reputation: 18771
China stole the solar power industry away from us 2 decades ago. President Trump would like to have some of that business back, create jobs here. No wonder the liberals will be against it.

America First!
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