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Old 05-02-2018, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
sorry, but there are lazy people and people with extremely hard work ethics

its like the incompetent 'workers' at fastfood DEMANDING they get 15/hr, and still cant get an order correct

communism can never work...it is physically and physiologically impossible
If you don't work then you don't get to participate in the management. Workers managed work place means active workers.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:29 PM
 
7,300 posts, read 3,398,309 times
Reputation: 4812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Marx never described how this society would come to place very well. That is why offshoots of Marxism (syndicalism) show a better path forward.
Why not just advocate Nazism? It has less of a death-toll.

Quote:
If the economy (in its current capitalist form) were to have a growth in workers-cooperative where businesses turned into worker managed structures eventually the need for the state will dissipate.
You forgot the part that necessitates culture eradication that allows every truly functional community level political structure (the family, religious ties, and ethnic ties) and protection to disintegrate, leaving a power gap for a totalitarian government to fill to "hold over" until it disintegrates. Which of course, it never does nor will it.

See every Marxist regime ever.

Marxism is a ploy to get the people to drop their political guard, and self-destroy the government that they created in favor of a foreign run government in its place. That foreign run government is always murderous and tyrannical. The people are de facto slaves, and are forced to adopt a politically inert slave culture.

That's the entire true purpose of Marxism. The economic BS is just that. Marxism/Communism are largely sociopolitical in nature. Not economic. The economic theory is a read herring, meant to fill the cultural gap (after true cultural unity is eliminated) as a false unity that is politically powerless. Again, see how easily the people were murdered in the USSR. They had zero political power.

As long as your society is culturally Marxist, it is functionally communist in a political sense. The primary marker being zero self-determination by the people.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
The economy is in a Statist form. There is only statism and capitalism. We disagree again on definitions.

There is no political power in capitalism that can impact anyone outside of those who consented to it.

Once your company man/men alter the capitalist lifestyle of my lone mountain man...you've introduced political statism to his world.

So answer my previous post very carefully.
The political power of the syndicates would only effect those who have a voice within the labor unions, therefore it is voluntary.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
2. If there is an assumed current user then they can continue on to the next factory town as it is best to communicate the transaction with someone else (human to human interaction).

3. No, but human to human interaction is important to a communal society. A major concept of Marxism is workers disputing their problems between each other. If there is nothing to suggest someone is there then they can take it.

4. An emergence can only be describes as something where one or more person(s) life/lives is functionally in danger (either they may die or permanently be crippled in some way.)
Though remember, for such emergencies there should be outlets that offer help, your hypothetical assumes the factory is not part of a larger community.
So my solitary capitalist mountain man must use his labor for the common good to exhibit some sort of signal that he will return to his own home?

Not whips and chains brother but that's pretty much slavery.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,641,969 times
Reputation: 9676
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
The left are predators, plunderers, and parasites, generous with other people's money while imposing oppression and misery via compulsory charity and expropriation of property (theft by government).
This is what they call "social justice."

I call it slavery and misery.
So? The left has to pay taxes, too, and obey the same laws, unless everybody else is so dumb as to let them get by.

Last edited by StillwaterTownie; 05-02-2018 at 08:03 PM..
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
The political power of the syndicates would only effect those who have a voice within the labor unions, therefore it is voluntary.
No. It's involuntary if the syndicate decides my solitary capitalist mountain man is relieved of his tools and returns home and can't use them.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1 View Post
Why not just advocate Nazism? It has less of a death-toll.



You forgot the part that necessitates culture eradication that allows every truly functional community level political structure (the family, religious ties, and ethnic ties) and protection to disintegrate, leaving a power gap for a totalitarian government to fill to "hold over" until it disintegrates. Which of course, it never does nor will it.

See every Marxist regime ever.

Marxism is a ploy to get the people to drop their political guard, and self-destroy the government that they created in favor of a foreign run government in its place. That foreign run government is always murderous and tyrannical. The people are de facto slaves, and are forced to adopt a politically inert slave culture.

That's the entire true purpose of Marxism. The economic BS is just that. Marxism/Communism are largely sociopolitical in nature. Not economic. The economic theory is a read herring, meant to fill the cultural gap (after true cultural unity is eliminated) as a false unity that is politically powerless. Again, see how easily the people were murdered in the USSR. They had zero political power.

As long as your society is culturally Marxist, it is functionally communist in a political sense. The primary marker being zero self-determination by the people.
Globalization (as predicted by Marx) is a product of capitalism. Communal societies would be decentralized each with their own cultures and religions.

Think of it like city-states
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Globalization (as predicted by Marx) is a product of capitalism. Communal societies would be decentralized each with their own cultures and religions.

Think of it like city-states
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

Finally an admission.

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Old 05-02-2018, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
No. It's involuntary if the syndicate decides my solitary capitalist mountain man is relieved of his tools and returns home and can't use them.
He can take it back.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

Finally an admission.

EMPHASIS on the Like
Only with no control over how and what people want to work as.

You can work, not work, build a house, etc.

Syndicates only affect how mass production is handled.
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