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Old 05-02-2018, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,382,061 times
Reputation: 14459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
All the colonial and post colonial war were fought for corporate domination of foreign resources.
Yes, statism sucks. Various States use/have used war to gather up markets so their bankers could subdue the masses with monopolized currencies/artificial scarcity. That's socialism though.

When do I hear about capitalism? Force initiation, such as violence, is not part of capitalism.

I know I'm using "odd" definitions but remember I don't believe what I was indoctrinated with at my mandated government education center (local public school). My definitions are correct.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,382,061 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Also he is describing state authoritarianism. I (and Marx) don't believe in the state.
From what I can tell you believe in a variation of the State. A State being any involuntary centralized authority that has not only somehow attained rights (which is logically impossible) but also has different rights than the individuals inside and outside the politburo...err...I mean the syndicate.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,439,796 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
Marx’s philosophy would lead directly to the deaths of 100 million human beings over the course of a century, the imprisonment of tens of millions more in gulags and reeducation camps from Russia to China to Vietnam to Cambodia to North Korea, and the oppression of hundreds of millions more hasn’t dissuaded those on the modern Western left from embracing Marx’s bloody legacy
None of which were communist or socialist. They only used the name.

Hitler's concentration camps sure won't be blamed on capitalism, but blame Marx on something that wasn't Marxist.

There were geopolitical reasons this happen. If you keep putting down real socialist moments and keep oppressing the workers eventually you'll get a dangerous reaction via an authoritarian dictator.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,274,620 times
Reputation: 19952
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Happy birthday Karl Marx, You are the Greatest Human being to ever live


Nah, he wasn't even the greatest Marx, can't hold a candle to Groucho!
Haha. Horse Feathers!
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,439,796 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Yes, statism sucks. Various States use/have used war to gather up markets so their bankers could subdue the masses with monopolized currencies/artificial scarcity. That's socialism though.

When do I hear about capitalism? Force initiation, such as violence, is not part of capitalism.

I know I'm using "odd" definitions but remember I don't believe what I was indoctrinated with at my mandated government education center (local public school). My definitions are correct.
If you are to claim real capitalism has never existed then I can't give you a number of how many it has killed.

But I can say the numbers attributed to Marx are lies as dictatorships aren't socialism;

Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

No mention of the state, only a worker run society as seen via the Zapatistas, etc.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,439,796 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
From what I can tell you believe in a variation of the State. A State being any involuntary centralized authority that has not only somehow attained rights (which is logically impossible) but also has different rights than the individuals inside and outside the politburo...err...I mean the syndicate.
Nope, de-centralized.

Individual work places will manage the economy and political system. There will be NO central power.

Watch this video if you want to see the real leftist movement in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBqIowBEL60
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,500,230 times
Reputation: 9619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
None of which were communist or socialist. They only used the name.

Hitler's concentration camps sure won't be blamed on capitalism, but blame Marx on something that wasn't Marxist.

There were geopolitical reasons this happen. If you keep putting down real socialist moments and keep oppressing the workers eventually you'll get a dangerous reaction via an authoritarian dictator.
everything the evil marx ever wrote about was tripe-soup

his theory of economics is garbage
\
his theory about a socialist utopia...pure garbage

and while idiot advocates of Marxism like you.. ""disown"" the Stalinists and the Maoists and the Castro regime and Venezuela and North Korea, all of those nations thought they were fulfilling Marx’s dream.


marx was the most delusional and evil man ever to live
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,500,230 times
Reputation: 9619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
If you are to claim real capitalism has never existed then I can't give you a number of how many it has killed.

But I can say the numbers attributed to Marx are lies as dictatorships aren't socialism;

Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

No mention of the state, only a worker run society as seen via the Zapatistas, etc.
Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the all powerful government as a whole.

Karl Heinrich Marx: the most evil man to ever live.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,382,061 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
If you are to claim real capitalism has never existed then I can't give you a number of how many it has killed.

But I can say the numbers attributed to Marx are lies as dictatorships aren't socialism;

Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

No mention of the state, only a worker run society as seen via the Zapatistas, etc.
Capitalism hasn't killed anyone because force initiation is not possible under the free exchange of goods and services.

Statism is the umbrella under which all evil takes place. Many people have used Marxist ideals to propagate States that have been quite murderous. Many people have used capitalist ideals to propagate States that have been quite murderous (The U.S.).

I read up on your philosophy and it doesn't make any sense outside of a labor-based paradigm. It has no principles originating from the basis of the default life settings of a human being (born free from contract and in poverty).

It's simply a way to organize traditional work methods/labor structures if people happen to find themselves doing that.

Some of the tenets are actually pretty agreeable in theory but make no sense as far as a life philosophy goes.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,382,061 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Nope, de-centralized.

Individual work places will manage the economy and political system. There will be NO central power.

Watch this video if you want to see the real leftist movement in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBqIowBEL60
It's less centralized than traditional statism.

"Individual work places" is a collective. Collectives have centralized authority to some degree.

"Individuals" will manage my economy and political system (if that individual chooses to form one).

See the difference?

Like I said, some of your tenets within the paradigm of work stations/factories are actually pretty appealing. The only problem is an involuntary collective is part of the paradigm.

You're simply transferring the control of the means of production from the State to a lesser State.
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