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There is only one body to discuss, that of the realized living woman. A fetus is not a life, it is a collection of cells that can be removed and discarded for any or no reason without ethical implications.
It is a "collection of cells" for a matter of few weeks.
After that ....not so much.
And "ethical implications" are defined differently by different people.
Debating abortion is a worthless exercise in futility . I just point out that the pretense that pro lifers are all men with a weird fetish about women's bodies is pure BS. The pro choice crowd never wants the debate framed around the fetus, because focusing on the fetus is always going to be a losing tactic for them . So they have invented this silly arse angle that everyone concerned about terminating a fetus is just a sexual weirdo trying to control women's vaginas . Why not just discuss the facts of terminating a fetus and the ethical considerations of such ? Is that too hard ?
Because they're tired of the debate? A fetus is a fetus. It's not a human being until it is capable of existing outside the womb.
Because they're tired of the debate? A fetus is a fetus. It's not a human being until it is capable of existing outside the womb.
No, not because they are tired of the debate . Because they know they can't win a debate that focuses on if and when it is OK to terminate a fetus. Ever. They want as little thought as possible given to the fetus and the act of abortion . So they choose to demonize the other side rather than intelligently defend their own stance with facts .
Why don't they use the contraceptives they can get at the exact same PP facilities where they get their abortions so that their very high rate of abortion isn't necessary in the first place? Why does failing to do such so disproportionately affect Black women?
Why should the failings of one race be used as a reason to restrict the options available to members of other races?
You must have a sour opinion of women. I've never met one that would ever consider an abortion on demand a convenience
This thread is ultimately pointless. Abortion is here to stay. Roe vs Wade isn't getting overturned. Abortion is up to the woman. If you feel other wise, it should be a requirement that you adopt an unwanted child. Otherwise, go mind your own.
It's a "convenience" as opposed to having, raising and paying for the child.
And I have stated over and over that I don't think that abortion should be illeagle.
Not sure how you manage to keep missing that. .....
No, not because they are tired of the debate . Because they know they can't win a debate that focuses on if and when it is OK to terminate a fetus. Ever. So they choose to demonize the other side rather than intelligently defend their stance on facts .
The other side will never give up.
The vast majority are abortions done early on.
Very seldom are they done late term, as others have pointed out the result of medical issues.
Stop assuming the women getting abortions are heartless charlatans.
Debating abortion is a worthless exercise in futility . I just point out that the pretense that pro lifers are all men with a weird fetish about women's bodies is pure BS. The pro choice crowd never wants the debate framed around the fetus, because focusing on the fetus is always going to be a losing tactic for them . So they have invented this silly arse angle that everyone concerned about terminating a fetus is just a sexual weirdo trying to control women's vaginas . Why not just discuss the facts of terminating a fetus and the ethical considerations of such ? Is that too hard ?
Bull$hit. I want to frame the debate precisely around the fetus. The pro-choice movement lost its way when it failed to keep the debate squarely on the collection of cells that is not a realized person, aka, the fetus. Let’s move it back there. I’m all for it. A sperm cell is not a human being. An egg is not a human being. When they merge, the result is not a human being. And won’t be until it is fully formed and born. The only way you conclude it IS a human being is to invoke mysticism, and that is not going to fly in 2018.
Your viewpoints are religious and Sharia-like, regardless of your professed beliefs. You want to insert your hands into the social vagina and rummage around, making rules and issuing “common sense” edicts and controls.
And by the way, you did not say you were “not religious”. You said you were not “very” religious. Whatever the hell that means. You are apparently religious enough to be in lockstep with religious arguments that seek to control and define a woman’s body, what it includes, what it omits, what parts of it have rights and when.
So if you don’t want to be viewed as someone favoring Christian variant Sharia, then don’t adopt that viewpoint.
But you actually want to do just that, and you know it. You want to control women and what they can do, when they can do it and under what circumstances. My position is that you should butt out of the lives of others, and leave them free to make this personal decision for themselves without your input.
Absolute drivel.
One can have objections to abortion without being based in religion.
Tell me.....do you object to murder?
Theft?
Fraud?
Adultery?
Are your objections to those things based on religious beliefs or on basic human rights and the difference between being a good person or a bad person?
The link to the map has already been provided. The only other excuse you can make for Black women's 5 times higher abortion rate is that Black women are too stupid to use the contraceptives they can get at the exact same PP facilities where they get their abortions to prevent the need for an abortion in the first place. Are you sure you intend to relay that message?
And what message are you relaying?......that black women are so feeble minded that they will decide to abort a wanted pregnancy just because they happen to pass a PP on their way to the grocery store?
One can have objections to abortion without being based in religion.
Tell me.....do you object to murder?
Theft?
Fraud?
Adultery?
Are your objections to those things based on religious beliefs or on basic human rights and the difference between being a good person or a bad person?
There is no murder, because there is no person. That’s the end of it. Unless you want to introduce your proclaimed non-existent religious beliefs and declare a fertilized egg to be a human being.
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