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Old 09-13-2018, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
There will always be an incentive, because there will always be a demand -its laws imposed by the state, that try to ignore capitalism, which cause harm

Alcohol is a good example - I can make my own beer, wine, spirits, buy it off someone who makes it themselves, or buy it off a cartel/corporation. There is no violence at any level, because the state doesn't come between human demand and capitalism.
This gets down to two separate things, control of production, and monetary incentive.

When the means of production are public, anyone may make alcoholic drinks, or drugs of any sort.

Without the monetary system to award distribution, organized crime would have no incentive to exist. That is separate from personal crime obviously.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,681,771 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
This gets down to two separate things, control of production, and monetary incentive.

When the means of production are public, anyone may make alcoholic drinks, or drugs of any sort.

Without the monetary system to award distribution, organized crime would have no incentive to exist. That is separate from personal crime obviously.
When the means of production are public, anyone can make a profit, and that profit doesn't involve violence.

Violence isn't a natural consequence of capitalism, but it is a natural consequence of artificially induced scarcity of an easily produced product.
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
When the means of production are public, anyone can make a profit, and that profit doesn't involve violence.

Violence isn't a natural consequence of capitalism, but it is a natural consequence of artificially induced scarcity of an easily produced product.
I agree.
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:34 AM
 
30,170 posts, read 11,803,456 times
Reputation: 18693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Organized Crime exists when private property is personally controlled, when power is centralized and authorized by the state, and when monetary incentives are the process by which we survive.

Without ownership of private capital, monetary exchange, goods will only be as useful as they are to the private individual, and only for their duration of usage.

And in Mexico's case, it is not that the state is weak, but that it is complicit, when organized power is distributed down (like here), authority only exists as far as the money and valuation its given by the government, remain. It would be a nightmare for the cartel if the state economic system failed.

Drug dealers exist because certain drugs are very addictive and they are illegal. As long as you have things, gold, silver, bit coins or any commodity commerce will exist.



Only way to stop that and organized crime is to legalize all drugs.
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
Drug dealers exist because certain drugs are very addictive and they are illegal. Only way to stop that and organized crime is to legalize all drugs.
I agree with this as well.
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:38 AM
 
30,170 posts, read 11,803,456 times
Reputation: 18693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
When the means of production are public, anyone can make a profit, and that profit doesn't involve violence.

Violence isn't a natural consequence of capitalism, but it is a natural consequence of artificially induced scarcity of an easily produced product.

You are talking about crime. Humans are violent by nature. They just have to be provoked.
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,681,771 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
You are talking about crime. Humans are violent by nature. They just have to be provoked.
Violence and crime aren't inherently linked - a person can sell weed for years, without any violence, while another can get a medal pinned on their chest, for killing many.

I think humans behaviour has too many contradictory facets, for human nature to have any real meaning.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:51 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 27,016,029 times
Reputation: 15645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Wage slavery is the understanding the workers have little control over how they exert their labor, and their control over said compensation. And being as they need that compensation to survive, they give up control of their own input for the sake of surviving.

The same logic existed with slaves, they could work or die, but they didn’t have control over their own work.
The OBVIOUS difference being that slaves were held there by force. Not the case in the working world. Learn more, work harder, change jobs, move up.

Or, as you suggest be a lazy victim and bitc# about the system being unfair and demand socialism so you can take from others labor...
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:53 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 27,016,029 times
Reputation: 15645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
Drug dealers exist because certain drugs are very addictive and they are illegal. As long as you have things, gold, silver, bit coins or any commodity commerce will exist.



Only way to stop that and organized crime is to legalize all drugs.
Really? Well Colorado shoots that argument right in the butt. Pot is legal there and yet the drug cartels and other black market dealers are still doing very well in the pot business...
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:57 PM
 
2,842 posts, read 2,329,046 times
Reputation: 3386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
https://www.voanews.com/a/native-ame...y/4561888.html

We committed worse acts to the natives than the holocaust, and we continue to commit atrocities to this day. We only stopped experimenting on native school children in the 90s, and we still keep them in excessive poverty. Now we want to destroy what is left.


Every American president should face an international tribunal for these acts and be sentenced to death.

Read a history book. Native Americans killed quite a few settlers too. The ugly American-Indian wars were a two way street and don't even kid yourself into thinking that if the Native Americans had won that they wouldn't have killed EVERYBODY they could find.
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