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Old 09-09-2018, 08:44 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,966,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
We do not waste their potential. The kids and their parents often do waste it themselves.

Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing.

Not due to morality, but due to it logically resulting in the best outcomes.

Its not governments job to do what you and your family should do for yourself.
In other words, just moralization, no solution to anything.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:44 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,852 posts, read 35,145,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazee Cat Lady View Post
Same old story, the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer, except that we are
practically back to a Caste system society now.
It is a tale of epic sadness that some people could work full time jobs and still struggle to feed their families and sometimes still end up homeless.
America should be better than this.
I have not read all the replies. I know that sooner or later this point will be brought up and probably debunked by the OP or someone else.

The fact is that most people are really bad managing their money. My parents lived on *about* $1200 a month. And they lived pretty well, even managing to save some of that money. They did not have cell phones, they did not have internet access or cable television. They did not eat out. They did not take vacations. Most of the food they ate was modest and cooked from scratch. In other words they did not spend their money on unnecessary things. People might argue that they NEED to have a vacation every year to "get away" from the stresses of life and "enjoy family time". But then they have no right to complain that they don't make enough money.

I will grant you that housing expenses are higher than they should be (especially in big cities, and places like California, which is just freaking INSANE), but people can share living accommodations, they can share transportation costs. People can grow some of their own food. They can purchase food at deep discounts at freight sales and close out stores. People can buy clothing at thrift shops. It can be done.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:46 PM
 
34,066 posts, read 17,088,810 times
Reputation: 17215
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
But they're not going to get any of that through the political system. They might through the market system of supply and demand, if the working class was not flooded with immigrants and foreign workers.

And as I mentioned earlier consumers have a big influence. If you want a union job then don't buy a non-UAW made car for instance.
Even though I am not a fan of unions in their present form, I like your whole post.

If you support unions, pay more for only union made products. There are American made product websites that let you track the actual manufacturer-which will le you track if they have a union there. So, if you are pro union, you should not be shopping at any Big Box or you are a Hypocrite. Spend extra money-support the unions you adore. Do not hire illegals in front of home improvement stores for yardwork-look for your unionized lawn care service with legal US citizens. At the very least, ask a local union what the prevailing wage should be, and do not agree to pay any less.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:49 PM
 
34,066 posts, read 17,088,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
In other words, just moralization, no solution to anything.
Solutions are internal, not Big Gov't, Thank God.

If folks are too lazy to do what they should to succeed, no one should care about them, as they do not care about themselves.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:51 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,966,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
But they're not going to get any of that through the political system. They might through the market system of supply and demand, if the working class was not flooded with immigrants and foreign workers.

And as I mentioned earlier consumers have a big influence. If you want a union job then don't buy a non-UAW made car for instance.
Name one country with destroyed unions where the working class is flourishing? It doesnt exist. For a very good reason. A worker being up against massively concentrated capital is like a lone ranger being up against a well equipped platoon. You'll get crushed eventually. If you abandon the political system to the ruling donor class, then you are letting the donors decide the future of this country. Thats a grave mistake, because they dont have your interests at heart.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:52 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,881,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Even though I am not a fan of unions in their present form, I like your whole post.

If you support unions, pay more for only union made products. There are American made product websites that let you track the actual manufacturer-which will le you track if they have a union there. So, if you are pro union, you should not be shopping at any Big Box or you are a Hypocrite. Spend extra money-support the unions you adore. Do not hire illegals in front of home improvement stores for yardwork-look for your unionized lawn care service with legal US citizens. At the very least, ask a local union what the prevailing wage should be, and do not agree to pay any less.

In some case it doesn't even cost more to buy an American and union made product. A Chevy can be bought often for less than the other makes. But you'll see liberals driving a wholly imported car saying they want more union workers. Where? Union workers in Germany and Korea I guess lol.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:52 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,966,079 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Solutions are internal, not Big Gov't, Thank God.

If folks are too lazy to do what they should to succeed, no one should care about them, as they do not care about themselves.
I suspect thats what you prefer as well. Have someone to hate. The bigger this group of people is, the happier you get. Many people indeed feel it is a threat to their self worth if someone they look down upon are lifted up.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:58 PM
 
34,066 posts, read 17,088,810 times
Reputation: 17215
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
In some case it doesn't even cost more to buy an American and union made product. A Chevy can be bought often for less than the other makes. But you'll see liberals driving a wholly imported car saying they want more union workers. Where? Union workers in Germany and Korea I guess lol.

It is an interesting facet of the last 25 years.

At one time, there were sympathy strikes.

Today unionized workers regularly shop at places that sell products competing with the livelihood of other unionized workers.

And they are clueless what a sympathy strike is, and how it, not the initial strike, was the big weapon.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:59 PM
 
34,066 posts, read 17,088,810 times
Reputation: 17215
BTW Thanks for all the reputation points via this thread, folks.
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Old 09-09-2018, 09:00 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,881,487 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Name one country with destroyed unions where the working class is flourishing? It doesnt exist. For a very good reason. A worker being up against massively concentrated capital is like a lone ranger being up against a well equipped platoon. You'll get crushed eventually. If you abandon the political system to the ruling donor class, then you are letting the donors decide the future of this country. Thats a grave mistake, because they dont have your interests at heart.
I'm not anti-union in principle. The unions are almost worthless anymore. UAW new workers make less in most cases than the non-union auto workers now. Then the other unions are basically for open borders. Consumers are a lot of the blame for destroying the unions and American workers. They're almost as much to blame as the politicians. Sometimes workers won't even unionize when given the chance. The average person is just short sided and looking out for only themselves and are no different than the politicians.
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