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Any society that is all about "individualism" or any society that is all about "collectivism" will eventually become its own worst enemy. Part of the problem with America in general today is we have tilted too much towards individualism. Individualism is the fuel that capitalism needs. However, keep in mind that the "Family" is a "Collective" construct and hence the family gets eroded in societies where individualism has run amok. No society will stand long without a strong foundation of families and the family structure of America is in descent.
That said, what does "black unity" look like? Black unity looks like black mothers and fathers in the home. Certainly if one is an advocate of individualism, then they should be a fan of fatherless home and the man just doing what is best for him and only thinking of himself and not bound by any family "group think". It also means not shooting down your brother in the street in a quest for "respect". It also means buying from black owned businesses instead of spending 95% of our money outside our community. It also means learning YOUR history as a person with African roots. Why teach the mountain lion the history of the Polar bear? Black people need a history that shows them as something other than slaves. It also means visiting black countries to help boost the economies.
Certainly there are many issues with adopting black unity as a solution, but the attractive aspect of it is that its a solution that is totally in the control of black people. Certainly the goal is for all of gods creature to live TOGETHER in harmony and mutual respect. However, after 300 years its clear that America is not that place in regards to race and consequently groups must do what they must do to preserve their dignity and respect among themselves, if not from others, whether its a perfect solution or not. Waiting for the "perfect" solution means there will be no attempts at a solution.
So, I made another post in response to this a page earlier. That one was kind of...poorly thought out. I don't think it was a bad post. It's just not as ideally worded as I would have liked. I thought about this some more, and this is my response after that.
I know nothing about black culture. I do know there is a chance that every culture is parasitic though. I also know, I've heard complaints from black atheists and agnostics about black culture that don't make me optimistic. Note that I'm not saying I like it less than other cultures. The only culture I think I've ever not disliked would be what little I know of the Cherokee culture...but that's undoubtedly because I've only heard anything about it from one extremely biased Cherokee man. For all I know, it's the worst culture out there.
I think all cultures need an easy route for their members to destroy them, if they become obsolete or parasitic. That'll keep them from becoming obsolete or parasitic. I think hedonism is a great kind of fall-back point if you can't think of a better behavioral guide. If you're behaving hedonistically, at worst you're helping yourself. That's not as ideal as someone behaving more empathetically, but it's a lot better than what culture often does, where it ruins people's lives because those people followed arbitarily decided cultural guidelines set in place by people who've never met them...such as the idea that we should do anything to preserve our pride, including shooting people who offend us. The more sensible, self-centered hedonist would just look at things like, "Why should I care about other people's opinions enough to shoot someone who disrespected me? That sounds unpleasant and complicated. I'm going to read a book instead." The more sensible, self-centered hedonist, rather than raising a child as a single mother when she didn't want a kid, would just have gotten an abortion, rather than having been pressured into keeping the child by her religion or culture.
We need that mentality kept sacred and respected, I think, that lovely hedonism that protects the individual from potentially predatory cultures - that hedonism that tells the individual "Be greedy, do what's best for you," may not be the most ideal state, but it's a nice kind of neutral phase where at least your behaviors are accomplishing something useful by helping yourself.
A risk of "black unification," as I see it, is it tells someone they're supposed to care about people, who they've never met, who aren't necessarily the best source for their resources...and if were to punish people for not partaking in that too, then if the individual doesn't need that sort of help the culture can provide, the culture not only becomes needless distraction, but a destructive and needless distraction.
Now, community unification, or family unification, that's very different from just unification based purely on race. With community or family unification, the people already know each other. They can directly help each other. The people doing the helping stand a good chance of getting rewarded for that. What you're talking about also seems different from just assisting the people who've had hard luck in general...which I'd probably see as a superior goal.
Note that you say "Waiting for the perfect solution means there will be no attempts at a solution," one point I as trying to get at in the post you responded to is...what's so bad about there not being a solution? It's not like it's a race. If black people continue having, statistically, higher crime rates and poverty levels than other groups for the next four hundred years...that's not the end of the world. Maybe the best "solution" is for people to stop looking at it as so much of a contest. I don't know...but maybe.
I think that human beings were evolved from organisms who had been living in tiny family groups for hundreds of thousands of years, and within those tiny family groups, every single action we did mattered to not just our survival, but the survival of everyone we knew for the entirety of our lives, and I think humans still are living based off that largely obsolete mentality.
Now, almost nothing we do matters except for our actions that assist us. Your idea of black unification, for example? You're probably going to accomplish little to nothing by trying to spread that. I think you're probably better off just spending that energy on entertainment. I think we're living in a new kind of tribe - a tribe we were never evolved to be part of. We're in the tribe of the human species, which contains over seven billion members. Everything besides the assistance of me and my community (and assisting my community mostly only matters because it assists me) is meaningless, except for assisting the human species to survive and live well. Everything that doesn't either assist the human species in the most efficient way possible, or Me, or in your case, you, is just a distraction, and often a damaging distraction. That means, nationalism is often just a distraction...although sometimes it serves a purpose, because we do understand more about how to assist ourselves than other people's, so our efforts will go further when assisting ourselves. That means race loyalty will often be a distraction, although again, it sometimes serves a purpose, because we'll often see the needs of our groups better than other people can see them. That means much of culture is just a pointless distraction.
And I realize that probably sounds quite depressing...but on a lighter note, a great way to assist the species, as I see it, is to do things we enjoy doing, and to be around people we love, because we're part of the species to, and we help it by helping ourselves.
Clintone, maybe if you shortened your posts people might actually read them. They're manuscripts...way too long and eyes glazed over while trying to find what your point us.
I'm wondering if anyone is aware that one of the most famous Blackface performers was an African American named George Walker. In America and perhaps the world he was said to be the second most famous African American next to Booker T. Washington during his lifetime. His shows made fun of Africans, Chinese, Indians, and black southerners.
One of the writers for his shows was Paul Laurence Dunbar who was famous in his own right as a dialect poet. Dunbar himself grew up going to an all white school and was the editor of the school newspaper. Most people of this genre, black or white, including Stephen Foster had no real knowledge of black southerners. An Englishman who came to America to command a USCT unit during the Civil War had a chance to actually hear Black music among his troops. He wrote home to his mother, "It was nothing like all the minstrel acts from America that toured Europe."
The criticizing of Kelly reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where they felt uncomfortable talking about race but they didn't know why.
thriftylefty, regarding the Seinfeld episode they KNEW why but obviously you missed the point, which was that often when whites see a black person they don't see a person - they only see the color of their skin. Seinfeld had several good episodes which addressed that very issue.
thriftylefty, regarding the Seinfeld episode they KNEW why but obviously you missed the point, which was that often when whites see a black person they don't see a person - they only see the color of their skin. Seinfeld had several good episodes which addressed that very issue.
I've seen that episode as well as all the others over ten times. My interpretation is not up for discussion here.
If blackface is so bad, and I am certainly not saying it isn't, why was it so popular among African American audiences?
I suppose 100 years from now people will be sitting around saying how awful it was for black people back during the time when young black artist had to dress up like thugs and call each other the N word and the B word in the music business.
Even the most scholarly and journalistic discussions of blackface wanders down the rabbit hole of it was bad but we don't know why black people loved it.
I've seen that episode as well as all the others over ten times. My interpretation is not up for discussion here.
If blackface is so bad, and I am certainly not saying it isn't, why was it so popular among African American audiences?
I suppose 100 years from now people will be sitting around saying how awful it was for black people back during the time when young black artist had to dress up like thugs and call each other the N word and the B word in the music business.
Even the most scholarly and journalistic discussions of blackface wanders down the rabbit hole of it was bad but we don't know why black people loved it.
If your interpretation isn't up for discussion you should have kept quiet.
I've seen every Seinfeld a lot more than ten times.
Look, you and some others can post rhetoric 24/7 trying to justify/excuse racism or pretend you don't know what it is. It does not and will not change the facts.
If your interpretation isn't up for discussion you should have kept quiet.
I've seen every Seinfeld a lot more than ten times.
Look, you and some others can post rhetoric 24/7 trying to justify/excuse racism or pretend you don't know what it is. It does not and will not change the facts.
Perhaps I should comment on your interpretation, but as judge Judy would say, you don't have the perception or perspective to know whats inside another persons head.
If you would answer the question: why did black people enjoy black face comedy,if it was so demeaning? I'll remind you that black theater goers at the turn of the century were among the most educated and intellectual black people of that time.
I think its people like you that get all puffed up about racism because its so easy look back into a time machine and indict people who lived with a much harsher reality of what racism was in their lives than you do today.
I think it was only less than a week ago some white fellow I hardly knew complimented me on my tan as way of telling a joke. Some people still don't get it and its not my job to educate them.
Say you have one group of white men who go around playing banjos in black face making jokes as if they are dumb blacks and another group of white men who put on hoods and grab shot guns and go around hanging black folks. Its a matter of perspective as to who the racist were in those times.
Last edited by thriftylefty; 10-30-2018 at 02:57 PM..
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