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Trump is a lot of things and now I'll add petty to the list.
His stupid wall is at best debatable in terms of being necessary. Its been beat to death in debate for 2 years now.
Instead of just putting it on the back burner so more important things can get done, Trump refuses to deal, holds up in the White House and pouts like a little kid.
Now his pettiness it adding to chaotic mess he has made of American government. Families are at risk of loosing everything. The economy is starting to slide down hill. The stock market has lost more value than since the great depression. Allies are alienated and despots and dictators are now friends.
The man is a menace not only to the US but the world.
wonder if this shut down will go for 2 years more.. till Trump ends his 1st year in office. Government workers cant just wait for a paycheck forever indefinitely.. if that were me, i'd have to quit.
i don't know what i would do if that were me furloughed with my paycheck in the Twilight Zone never knowing when it would get here.
They should have dinged the Congresspeople's paycheck for them to really feel it.
Myself as I used to be a boss, I took responsibility for the stupidity of those who worked for me. I figured out where I went wrong and fixed it so it will not happen again.
What have nancy and chuck said? Oh, nancy did say she would give a single dollar for the wall. How is that compromising?
Nah....in person, I'm the type of guy with enough personability skills to tell yo that you are not right and you'd end up agreeing with me...
They are equally stupid....nobody rises above anyone with those 3.
I'm sorry you don't like that numbers I keep presenting, but you keep bringing them up for some reason, do they irritate you?
Well aren't we special? If your "personability skills" match your spelling skills, I'm not sure I'd be quite as impressed with myself as you seem to be. Sorry. Just couldn't resist that one as I also try to resist another round of wasted back-and-forth, but this belief, like Trump's, that all differences of opinion can simply be won over by way of a "winning" personality and/or sheer will doesn't really work so well with as many people as you might think.
But seriously folks...
This thread proves like so many others again and again that facts, reason and objective critical thinking take a back seat to our previously established political bias. Apparently few in this forum seem to recognize the same thing. Regardless the utter futility, these threads continue to grow day after day as if making a difference to anyone. Can't bring myself to waste that sort of time anymore, but just for quick kicks here.
Not sure how you taking responsibility for your business applies too well to Trump's taking responsibility for this shutdown, but if Trump were to take responsibility as he should, he wouldn't suggest the responsibility belongs to the Democrats as you also want everyone to accept. Nonsense. When you were a boss, would you have closed your business and blamed the results on others?
Why then do you again ask what Nancy or Chuck have offered in terms of compromise since Trump shut down the government? Why should they not wait for Trump to offer something up since he is responsible for this shut down? Trump needs to make that move now, not Nancy or Chuck. Duh. What I mean about neither being THAT stupid.
If you think all three are "equally stupid," that too would be yet another serious difference of opinion. Fact is, there have been more than a few versions of what Democrats consider a better approach toward better border security, but now that Trump essentially made clear it's "my way or the highway," why should anyone not expect the Democrats to go the way of the highway? Leaving Trump and his shutdown in the rear view mirror?
Of course you are certainly not the only one bringing up these numbers. Trump has been doing the same all along. No doubt facts matter and that's why I also posted that about fact-checking Trump's speech (also mostly ignored of course). What DOES irritate me is the misrepresentation of facts. All Trump's misrepresentations, exaggerations and fear mongering. Sometimes even flat out lies. Propaganda to put it simply, that you and so many Trump supporters seem to accept without question.
What will $5 billion buy in terms of significant change the likes that Trump and his supporters seem starry eyed about believing? How could that $5 billion be spent on border security that wouldn't be Trump's "big beautiful wall?" That's really the problem now, isn't it? There are better more effective ways to spend that kind of money without building a monstrosity of a wall, for a problem well overblown, but Trump wants his wall just like he loves to put his name all over his buildings. This is an ego thing now. Nancy and Chuck know it, and they're just not dumb enough or in love with Trump to the point of treating him like a king.
This is Trump's problem now, much like Stormy was his problem before and just like before, it's Trump who needs to figure out how to fix this mess too. Let's see if he does any better with this one...
Yes, yes.....these are the ones that were caught....how many more just walk through? YOu cann tell us because there are no number to validate.
I guess they just missed that guy who raped that child recently....who by the way was deported numerous times....so there is some ignoring going on....
Notice here too the misrepresentation of truth to promote still more of the same propaganda...
If anyone doesn't focus on these kinds of tragic examples as if representative of all illegal immigrants, this means you are ignoring these sorts of facts.
Seems you have just about every such tactic shamefully well at hand, but just like your belief that you can bring anyone around to your point of view thanks to your winning personality, I'd think again on all counts.
No one considers any rape or murder, freeway car accident or gun violence acceptable. Start by understanding and accepting these sorts of basic facts, stop suggesting otherwise, and you just might begin to make a little better sense to more people who don't necessarily think the way you do.
What will $5 billion buy in terms of significant change the likes that Trump and his supporters seem starry eyed about believing? How could that $5 billion be spent on border security that wouldn't be Trump's "big beautiful wall?" That's really the problem now, isn't it? There are better more effective ways to spend that kind of money without building a monstrosity of a wall
You may assume that but you don't know that. CBP has not said they would rather have $5B on other things than the wall. Why do people insist on the minute details of a wall yet never ask for them on "border security" not a wall? Dems are ok with $1.6B for "border security". What is that for? How much of it is for agents? How many agents? What kind of agents? How much of it is for vehicles? How many vehicles? What kind of vehicles? How much of it is for sensors and cameras and drones? How many? What kind? They don't know and they don't care. The honest truth is that Trump could whip out a construction bid set showing every precise detail and Congressional Dems would not be one iota more in favor of the wall.
Well aren't we special? If your "personability skills" match your spelling skills, I'm not sure I'd be quite as impressed with myself as you seem to be. Sorry. Just couldn't resist that one as I also try to resist another round of wasted back-and-forth, but this belief, like Trump's, that all differences of opinion can simply be won over by way of a "winning" personality and/or sheer will doesn't really work so well with as many people as you might think.
But seriously folks...
This thread proves like so many others again and again that facts, reason and objective critical thinking take a back seat to our previously established political bias. Apparently few in this forum seem to recognize the same thing. Regardless the utter futility, these threads continue to grow day after day as if making a difference to anyone. Can't bring myself to waste that sort of time anymore, but just for quick kicks here.
Not sure how you taking responsibility for your business applies too well to Trump's taking responsibility for this shutdown, but if Trump were to take responsibility as he should, he wouldn't suggest the responsibility belongs to the Democrats as you also want everyone to accept. Nonsense. When you were a boss, would you have closed your business and blamed the results on others?
Why then do you again ask what Nancy or Chuck have offered in terms of compromise since Trump shut down the government? Why should they not wait for Trump to offer something up since he is responsible for this shut down? Trump needs to make that move now, not Nancy or Chuck. Duh. What I mean about neither being THAT stupid.
If you think all three are "equally stupid," that too would be yet another serious difference of opinion. Fact is, there have been more than a few versions of what Democrats consider a better approach toward better border security, but now that Trump essentially made clear it's "my way or the highway," why should anyone not expect the Democrats to go the way of the highway? Leaving Trump and his shutdown in the rear view mirror?
Of course you are certainly not the only one bringing up these numbers. Trump has been doing the same all along. No doubt facts matter and that's why I also posted that about fact-checking Trump's speech (also mostly ignored of course). What DOES irritate me is the misrepresentation of facts. All Trump's misrepresentations, exaggerations and fear mongering. Sometimes even flat out lies. Propaganda to put it simply, that you and so many Trump supporters seem to accept without question.
What will $5 billion buy in terms of significant change the likes that Trump and his supporters seem starry eyed about believing? How could that $5 billion be spent on border security that wouldn't be Trump's "big beautiful wall?" That's really the problem now, isn't it? There are better more effective ways to spend that kind of money without building a monstrosity of a wall, for a problem well overblown, but Trump wants his wall just like he loves to put his name all over his buildings. This is an ego thing now. Nancy and Chuck know it, and they're just not dumb enough or in love with Trump to the point of treating him like a king.
This is Trump's problem now, much like Stormy was his problem before and just like before, it's Trump who needs to figure out how to fix this mess too. Let's see if he does any better with this one...
Yes, you are correct, you have wasted a lot of peoples time...with you trying to be holier than now type of person....
And of course you dig at me for spelling, leaving all your leftist buddies alone.
Just a few things to consider. We have very good electronic records in America. If you have a felony conviction in Alabama or Maine it is almost a certainty that an officer in Nevada or Utah will pull it up on a check. Not so good records in Honduras and Guatemala or even Mexico, and if they even have electronic criminal record databases, doubtful that CBP can tap into them.
Also, 1 in 450 may not be a problem in small numbers but absolute numbers matter. And don't forget, we don't apprehend everyone who tries to illegally cross. The estimate used to be 1 in 4 so be sure to multiple the number apprehended accordingly.
Fair enough...
Just what percentage of all illegal immigrants do you put in the felony conviction category that has you the most fearful? If you want to talk about absolute numbers (and yes of course they matter), what are they really, and how do you determine them to warrant a $5 billion dollar wall? How do you quantify that let alone what the wall will do in terms of absolute numbers after the wall were built. Factor in all the other pro/con issues surrounding illegal immigration, including our relations with Mexico and all Hispanic Americans and so begins the debate in earnest. That's lots of Americans who don't think in terms of criminals when it comes to their family members in general.
Fact is, those you fear most are not the ones who will be stopped by a big wall generally speaking. The drug dealers entering this country are smarter than that, and we all know this. We also have good intelligence on how these people have been entering the country. Hopefully there is no need to repeat those solid facts here too.
So the issue here is this. Who and how will Trump's wall actually prevent from entering this country? To what extent are those people the threat or problem that Trump and his supporters believe? Are they a $5 billion problem all considered for starters? More specifically, how much of this $5 billion will actually prevent the drugs, drug dealers, rapists and murderers from entering this country? If not really all that much, to what extent does Trump's wall make sense? Are we really considering spending all that money and building that big ugly wall for far less bang for the buck than we think?
Seems to me the preponderance of evidence indicates we are, bigly.
Notice here too the misrepresentation of truth to promote still more of the same propaganda....
No misrepresentation, because you disagree does not make it so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
If anyone doesn't focus on these kinds of tragic examples as if representative of all illegal immigrants, this means you are ignoring these sorts of facts. .
Never said that, but to just blatantly ignore it, like it's not happening is just wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Seems you have just about every such tactic shamefully well at hand, but just like your belief that you can bring anyone around to your point of view thanks to your winning personality, I'd think again on all counts..
No, I don't think I can bring people around to my point, I just call it like I see it. Seems you don't like that kind of person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
No one considers any rape or murder, freeway car accident or gun violence acceptable. Start by understanding and accepting these sorts of basic facts, stop suggesting otherwise, and you just might begin to make a little better sense to more people who don't necessarily think the way you do.
Again, to say it does not happen and ignoring those facts that it does happen is also wrong.
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