Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I will not stoop to the assignation of character that seems to be ok with some proponents of this issue...
How many people in America are waiting on an adoption list somewhere, and adopting in other countries because there just aren't enough babies here?
264,943 abortions, attained a high profit of $55.8 million doesn't really look like a small portion to me...
We have a lot of children awaiting adoption in this country. They aren't babies and they aren't being adopted. The pro-lifers have yet to solve that problem.
Many of the hospitals across the USA, and in particular serving more rural areas, are Catholic-affiliated. So even when the abortion is medically necessary it cannot be performed in the hospital. Many communities don't have out-patient surgical centers. Women have to travel to get the medical care they require. For poor women, this is an added burden, especially financially. The restrictions that have been placed on abortion and on the availability of contraception have a much deeper impact on the poor in this country than the rich. And these are the same families that are least able to afford additional children, especially a challenged child. It is offensive to think that poor women because of their status should be forced to have child after child in this country, while women with means are able to control their lives. Planned Parenthood at least gives some of these women some degree of control.
I went to an ob/gyn whose office was in a Catholic hospital, he had no problem prescribing me the pill.....also, when my mother was in a precarious pregnancy with one of my brothers her ob/gyn told her that his first priority was to save her life, the baby would be second. She was his patient....this was 44 years ago and at a Catholic hospital. I'm not doubting everything you wrote, but I don't believe that it is as difficult to obtain the pill then it may have been twenty plus years ago.
And no matter what, condoms are readily available, everywhere. And a lot safer for preventing STDs.
As far as rape and incest, as horrific as those cases must be....they are in actuality very rare. A more common abortion patient is going to be a woman in her twenties or thirties.
Women in their twenties or thirties don't get raped? And incest wasn't the abuse I was referring to. Married women from nice, middle-class homes get abused every day in this country, behind closed doors. Some of the abuse is physical, some emotional. Women who don't feel like they have anywhere to turn, in part because they are middle-class and are afraid of the reactions of their family and neighbors, women who might not want to bring a child into an abusive home. There are single women who are trying to build careers, and who use contraceptives and still get pregnant. The same people who tell them they shouldn't have an abortion but should put the baby up for adoption are also the ones who label the woman for getting pregnant (she was a harlot, she was irresponsible, she was immoral), and those labels will affect her career, and her life, because while getting pregnant might be a private matter, being pregnant is not. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of women do not use abortion as a de facto contraceptive, they agonize over the decision, and they often do have regrets afterwards. But even if they regret that they ever had to make the decision, for some it was the right decision.
We have a lot of children awaiting adoption in this country. They aren't babies and they aren't being adopted. The pro-lifers have yet to solve that problem.
Do you know why they are waiting? Because the foster care system in this country prefers to wait until children have been in the system for ten or more years before completely terminating parental rights. In that time they are ping ponged back and forth from crack head/abusive/negligent parent to always a new and different foster home. These children have psychological scars that are not going to be surmounted with a loving home alone.
I can be honest enough to say, that though I wish it were otherwise, I am not capable of parenting a child (really, preteen/teenager) with serious emotional problems.
That isn't the fault of pro lifers, that is the fault of your government giving a social engineering theory a try at the cost of children.
Read my post......my daughter certainly did react to death, and quite violently too. Whether it could be argued that it was a reflex or not is immaterial.....pain was felt.
You chose to keep the fetus until birth. Other people might choose differently, and it doesn't mean they are monsters or they are indifferent to suffering. Pregnancy and delivery themselves are medical risks and some women might decide, with their doctor, that it is not worth the risk to themselves.
It's your body, your choice, and I'm not belittling your decision. However, I must object at least in part to your assertion that "pain was felt". That may be true, but pain doesn't equal suffering. When a person catches fish in a net or a hook, it causes intense pain to the fish, and yet the majority of humans are indifferent to the fish's pain, because they regard the fish's life as not worthy of much (if any) moral consideration. Many ethicists and philosophers would argue that the pain of the fish doesn't matter as much as the suffering of a child or an adult because the fish doesn't have the mental faculties to contextualize the pain into suffering- it's brain tells its body to twitch and flail not out of fear of its imminent death and realization of its own mortality, but because millions of years of evolution have affected the fishes DNA to react to pain in such a manner to attempt to free itself. And yet, a fetus often has a nervous system less developed than that fish.
Quote:
Also, I don't believe anyone is trying to say that fetus's are aware of the greater world...how could they be? But this argument against them being sentient beings is like trying to say a tribesman in the Amazon does not comprehend of life outside of his territory, much less of the modern world therefore he is less then human and can be killed at will.
To compare an adult Amazonian to a fetus is (more than) a bit insulting to the Amazonian. The Amazonian has a lifetime of memories and kinship, he is conscious of his environment and thinks about his world in a symbolic manner using language. He would worry about his children or family when he leaves the village. Not even babies can do this, because babies do not have the mental capacity to think about the future or contemplate their existence; they live in a sensorimotor world.
Did you read it? Those are not figures of children in orphanages who are available for adoption. You may be interested to read what the figures you quoted actually are for:
"Residential group care encompasses a broad array of services for children with pronounced special needs. Residential services are highly flexible and provide for varying lengths of stay, based on the client's needs. Length of stay may range from a short respite due to tense family situations, to long-term therapy for problems such as drug or alcohol addiction. Although long-term stays in family-like community-based group homes best serve some children's individual needs, residential group care is usually a temporary placement. Many children in residential care have emotional or physical conditions that require intensive, on-site therapy; others receive services from day treatment programs in their communities. Residential care programs are highly flexible and are designed to meet each child's individual needs"
In the paragraph you quoted, there is no mention of not being allowed to adopt these children.
Here are further resources, addresses, and contact info for your perusal:
All Children - All Families Initiative
Human Rights Campaign
1640 Rhode Island Ave NW
Washington DC 20036-3278
Phone: 202/628-4160
TTY: 202/216-1572
Toll Free: 800/777-4723
E-Mail: hrc@hrc.org HRC | Home
Child Welfare Information Gateway
(Formerly the National Adoption Information Clearinghouse)
U.S. Children's Bureau
1250 Maryland Avenue SW, Eighth Floor
Washington DC 20024
Phone: 703/385-7565
Toll free: 800/394-3366
Email: info@childwelfare.gov Child Welfare Information Gateway
National Network of Adoption Advocacy Program
5601 Chamberlayne Road
Richmond VA 23227
Phone: 804/377-1627
Fax: 804/864-8457
Welcome to NNAAP (http://www.nnaap-ococ.org - broken link)
National Resource Center for Special Needs Adoption
16250 Northland Drive, Suite 120
Southfield, MI 48075
Phone: 248/443-7080 Spaulding For Children
North American Council on Adoptable Children
970 Raymond Avenue, Suite 206
St. Paul, MN 55104
Phone: 612/644-3036 NACAC
I went to an ob/gyn whose office was in a Catholic hospital, he had no problem prescribing me the pill.....also, when my mother was in a precarious pregnancy with one of my brothers her ob/gyn told her that his first priority was to save her life, the baby would be second. She was his patient....this was 44 years ago and at a Catholic hospital. I'm not doubting everything you wrote, but I don't believe that it is as difficult to obtain the pill then it may have been twenty plus years ago.
And no matter what, condoms are readily available, everywhere. And a lot safer for preventing STDs.
You were fortunate. Many Catholic hospitals will not allow the prescribing of contraceptives, and absolutely forbid ending pregnancies in any way or any surgeries that could prevent pregnancy. And just because contraceptives are used, they don't always stop pregnancies. I have a close relative that had a tubal ligation, and seven years later got pregnant. No contraceptive is 100% effective.
but because millions of years of evolution have affected the fishes DNA to react to pain in such a manner to attempt to free itself. And yet, a fetus often has a nervous system less developed than that fish.
Most, but admittedly not all, animals have evolved to not eating their young. Perhaps someday humans will catch up!
Women in their twenties or thirties don't get raped? And incest wasn't the abuse I was referring to. Married women from nice, middle-class homes get abused every day in this country, behind closed doors. Some of the abuse is physical, some emotional. Women who don't feel like they have anywhere to turn, in part because they are middle-class and are afraid of the reactions of their family and neighbors, women who might not want to bring a child into an abusive home. There are single women who are trying to build careers, and who use contraceptives and still get pregnant. The same people who tell them they shouldn't have an abortion but should put the baby up for adoption are also the ones who label the woman for getting pregnant (she was a harlot, she was irresponsible, she was immoral), and those labels will affect her career, and her life, because while getting pregnant might be a private matter, being pregnant is not. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of women do not use abortion as a de facto contraceptive, they agonize over the decision, and they often do have regrets afterwards. But even if they regret that they ever had to make the decision, for some it was the right decision.
And I am not arguing that point, that abortion is always going to be in use. There is no denying that. And yes, it is particularily disgusting how birthmothers are viewed in our society, but I do hope that you weren't trying to say that I would label or call those women names in any way shape or form. A very good friend of mine gave her son up for adoption 22 years ago, I assure you I have never called her a harlot.
At anyrate, yes there are reasons for having an abortion, some better then others......but bottom line is that tax dollars via medicaid should not pay for them.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
