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Will give that a good faith try may not be immediate as I saw it at a friends house. I do remember it was about 27 min long and was a report commissioned by an AZ county sheriffs office who consulted with documents forensics of another agency.
that would be mike zullo's "cold case posse" ( it's actually a non-profit entity and isn't part of the maricopa county sheriff's office ). zullo's non-expert claims can be debunked by the link i previously posted plus zullo got caught in that one posting false evidence ( he posted the wrong year for the birth registration race codes. the correct year's codes contradict zullo's claims and support obama's birth certificate ).
The same could be said of many claiming trump is a russian asset or that social media posts actually got americans to change their votes from hillary to trump.
At least you forward the reasonable argument that Trump is not the source of the movement and merely believed or repeated the evidence that he saw.
And though I am no birther nor do I care I have seen a forensic report from as recently as several years ago that makes a pretty damning case for the document being a forgery. If I were running for office I would have it vetted before making claims based on it.
When Trump made his claims he wasnt running for office and he really doesnt care what his critics think any more so...
Perhaps the mental illness could be on the part of his critics who think he owes them an apology or retraction or public statement of disassociation with everything they wish to pin on him.
Or in short why should he apologize for believing in something he saw evidence for? He doesnt have to grovel before you.
Good Sir, you are indeed a Birther and this is why you continue to defend Trump on this indefensible matter. Even Trump wanted ALL of this birther nonsense to disappear once he began running for president.
However, it was precisely his birther nonsense that enabled his most recent foray into Republican politics. Suddenly, he was invited to speak at republican conferences, et and the rest is history.
Strange post. You concede that most of the information you use to form your conclusion came from watching a fictionalized TV dramatization of this event.
You further make conflicting statements conceding the boys were in the park as gang members to commit crimes- horrible crimes you concede happened... yet portray them as merely victims in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Need I remind you that under the law members of a gang are fully complicit in all crimes committed by the gang.... and need not even be at the scene? Never mind they were there? Shall we discuss the information offered by one of the defendents concerning a stolen walkman? At a time when the police had no knowledge that a walkman had been taken from the victim? There were many statements made voluntarily that put them there, committing crimes, it just turns out that the worst of them was done by another.
So the fact your post frames part of its criticism on Fox news and its credibility but is based on TV dramatizations claiming these boys did nothing wrong because why? You saw a TV show with actors in it? Seriously?
Because Trump bashing seems to be a media pastime it seems finding objective data on the confessions and original trial is difficult, buried perhaps 100 to 1 against pieces fawning over this TV show. Your opinion has as much weight as mine or anyone elses for that matter but should be focused on the facts of the case not some TV producers vision of it.
Now youve got some pretty valid points concerning due process and prosecutorial misconduct as well as the public hysteria that helped the convictions but its going to be wasted by portraying these guys as angels. The crimes comitted that day were not indicative of a progressive society.
I did not say the boys were or are in a gang. The boys followed other boys into the park. This is a huge no no-no. I'm from NYC, and I know of similar instances of boys who are or were innocent when rolling or hanging out with the wrong crowd even though such boys are innocent without any wrong doing. Once you roll with the wrong people, cops will come to the door asking for questions. That was the norm in NYC, and probably still so to this day. I know about Central Park 5 for years. I was a little child then and Did not know about. As I got older, I read about crimes where innocent people that were placed wrongfully in prison and executed such as Sacco and Vanzetti, and again boys like the Central Park 5. Anyway, can you please sitdown if you have the time and watch the boys confessions. Its real sad, that the city of NY coerced these boys, and none of the boys testimonies made sense with holes and inconsistencies. Last, most of my information is not from mini series. I learned about such cases in criminal justice case law classes. Also if you get the chance. Watch Ken Burns the Central Park 5. Very informative as well.
Im focusing on arguments in this thread that refer to the document which as such in writing is something the public remembers. VCRs were fairly uncommon at the time of trial and interviews by him would have little exposure or effect.
I neednt elaborate on why his statements from 2014 have no relevance toward the case. They got their judgement are they butthurt Trump doesnt like them? I am 100% certain they went to the park that night to find weak rich white people beat them senseless and rob them. Their statements and those of witnesses support that.
Trump owes no apology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee
Will give that a good faith try may not be immediate as I saw it at a friends house. I do remember it was about 27 min long and was a report commissioned by an AZ county sheriffs office who consulted with documents forensics of another agency. Paid for or sponsored by a birther group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee
You are correct it was an industry promotional flyer and not the book jacket. I was in error and should have caught the distinction when I provided the link.
However its purely assumption to isolate the distribution of that to when breitbart found it. What we can confirm is that it was put out there in writing as promotional material, we dont know how many hands or channels it went through and of absolute importance its absurd to claim Trump originated it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee
Strange post. You concede that most of the information you use to form your conclusion came from watching a fictionalized TV dramatization of this event.
You further make conflicting statements conceding the boys were in the park as gang members to commit crimes- horrible crimes you concede happened... yet portray them as merely victims in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Need I remind you that under the law members of a gang are fully complicit in all crimes committed by the gang.... and need not even be at the scene? Never mind they were there? Shall we discuss the information offered by one of the defendents concerning a stolen walkman? At a time when the police had no knowledge that a walkman had been taken from the victim? There were many statements made voluntarily that put them there, committing crimes, it just turns out that the worst of them was done by another.
So the fact your post frames part of its criticism on Fox news and its credibility but is based on TV dramatizations claiming these boys did nothing wrong because why? You saw a TV show with actors in it? Seriously?
Because Trump bashing seems to be a media pastime it seems finding objective data on the confessions and original trial is difficult, buried perhaps 100 to 1 against pieces fawning over this TV show. Your opinion has as much weight as mine or anyone elses for that matter but should be focused on the facts of the case not some TV producers vision of it.
Now youve got some pretty valid points concerning due process and prosecutorial misconduct as well as the public hysteria that helped the convictions but its going to be wasted by portraying these guys as angels. The crimes comitted that day were not indicative of a progressive society.
None of your posts make any sense. You seem to be just as emotional as Donald Trump. And I smell what the troll is cooking. Do you?
then i'd challenge you to find any citing of the bio blurb in support of birtherism between february 2008 and may 2012. there is none that i know of.
I believe the argument I am involved in is to merely prove that Donald Trump is not the original source of accusations that Obama was born in Kenya.
I think that is a given and if proof was needed it was furnished.
Not to be overly blunt but not here to jump through hoops to support claims that are pointless anyway. You want proof that promotional material reached the eyes of someone who noticed it.
Im satisfied it was put in writing, mass produced on a press, and we have copies of it to view. That is documentation, or provenance. Evidence. Not to be mistaken as proof for critics.
None of your posts make any sense. You seem to be just as emotional as Donald Trump. And I smell what the troll is cooking. Do you?
Your approval is hardly a prerequisite for me to get through my day. However I would note I treated your post with enough respect to identify points I differed with, recognize points that were valid, and even conceded your right to an opinion as equal as my own.
You seem to think a credible rebuttal exists in failing to understand a thing I said along with a thinly veiled ad hominem.
I guess simple is the best language for you. You resorted to a personal insult first.
You lose.
Edit: Didnt see your previous (substantial ) post. My bad. Perhaps you should have left it at that so I could reply. And will. Again my apologies.
Last edited by phinneas j. whoopee; 06-10-2019 at 12:31 PM..
I believe the argument I am involved in is to merely prove that Donald Trump is not the original source of accusations that Obama was born in Kenya.
I think that is a given and if proof was needed it was furnished.
Not to be overly blunt but not here to jump through hoops to support claims that are pointless anyway. You want proof that promotional material reached the eyes of someone who noticed it.
Im satisfied it was put in writing, mass produced on a press, and we have copies of it to view. That is documentation, or provenance. Evidence. Not to be mistaken as proof for critics.
Boy you guys worked hard just to say Trump took the idea and ran with it.
I don't even think the person you are arguing with was refuting that statement. It was a question of if the certificate was real, which a moot point considering you had 8 years to prove it and couldn't. I guess I should argue that George W. was a coke head and drunk while in office, but what good would it do now?
Your approval is hardly a prerequisite for me to get through my day. However I would note I treated your post with enough respect to identify points I differed with, recognize points that were valid, and even conceded your right to an opinion as equal as my own.
You seem to think a credible rebuttal exists in failing to understand a thing I said along with a thinly veiled ad hominem.
I guess simple is the best language for you. You resorted to a personal insult first.
You lose.
I was being honest with you. No punt intended. I just got 5 rep points btw.
Hmm... dogpiling onto complete incompetance? Join in if you like.
Irony is not an appliance used to press clothes.
Last edited by phinneas j. whoopee; 06-10-2019 at 12:18 PM..
Reason: Mods... understand the language violation will try a different way to add context
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