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Maybe Antifa are conservative liberals? Living contradictions?
The lunatic left, are a walking contradiction, of the 3rd degree.
Create boxes to place people into and then sit back as you create a fight, so there is a victim in the end. If there were no victims, the democrats would be out of a job. The entire reason they create victims.
In other words, (1) conservative = good, (2) liberal = bad, and (3) if you disagree, then up-yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nedergras
Conservatives are less tribal by nature, we all speak the same language, we all enjoy the same entertainment, we all enjoy the same type of work or hobbies.
Presumably this is meant to be ironic, no? For "speaking the same language", "enjoying the same entertainment" and "enjoying the same type of work or hobbies" are quite a pat and comprehensive definition of "tribe".
Quote:
Originally Posted by nedergras
Community, family, religion, and country is more important than identity. We define identity only as American.
Some of us - evidently, not conservatives - don't view our identity as belonging or not-belonging to some particular national identity. And some of us - again, evidently not conservatives - regard personal identity as being far more important than community, family, religion of country.
There's considerable truth to the premise behind this thread. Conservative reasoning favors the local over the distant, the kin-group over the stranger-group, the nation over the globe. "Globalism", even in the sense of unbridled corporate power, is anti-conservative, even if in terms of profit-motive and low-taxes and so forth, it isn't exactly "liberal".
The central conservative idea is that local group-interests are more valuable and merit deeper devotion, than any paean to "universal humanity". Loyalty matters, less from the principle of fidelity and reciprocity of faith (though this matters too), than from belief that sticking together with one's family, one's mates, one's team, one's tribe - is more important than advancing some abstract goal.
The liberal view tends to diminish distinctions between people as members or non-members of some entity. To a liberal, the difference between citizen, resident, sojourner, stranger and impostor aren't so crucial. In any case they are secondary to a person's actual behavior. To a conservative, these differences are paramount.
Consequently, conservatives would regard some policy that benefits strangers or foreigners, at the expense of locals or citizens, as being stupid and outright treasonous. Liberals would shrug their shoulders in bemusement, wondering as to what's all the fuss.
Progressives hate the local group; they think it virtuous to despise their home. There's a word for that: oikophobia.
Conservatives are Tribalism to an extreme. There is a very real reason the left have such a hard time with unity and the Right does not. The Left by and large focus on issues, and many of them are so hung up on different specific issues that they will attack each other as much as they attack the opposing Right.
The Right cares more about loyalty. This fact is why they are so willing to back "their team" even when presented with hard evidence that those individuals act in direct opposition to their supposed values.
You want to know why it doesn't make sense that they cry about things like universal health care, but don't cry about the trillions spent on pointless wars? Because it isn't made to make sense. You will never logic your way out of people who are climate change deniers, deficit apologists, border wall supporters etc. They are thinking on a tribal level, not a logical one.
This fact is because tribalism taps into fundamental conservative beliefs. Conservatives are much more sympathetic to things like authoritarianism, classism, racism, etc. because it is based fundamentally on the idea that some people are simply better than other people. And, often times, those "better people" are frequently people that conservatives can associate with themselves, whether that is "being an American, being a Republican, being a Texan, being white, being a man, being a soldier, being wealthy etc."
So, when a man comes up and says "I am you, but I am the best of you. I am a White, wealthy, American man, and I am here to tell you that Climate change doesn't real." You just accept that as fact because you're not going to crucify one of your own, especially if you believe he is better than you.
This fact is why the left is far more likely to crucify their own over "petty" things. You think Anthony Weiner or Al Franken would be out of office if they were Republicans? When was the last time you saw Republicans call for the resignation of one of their own over a sex scandal, an indictment, a racist past, etc. ? It's not impossible, but it is far from common. They are far more likely to call for their head when they trample on "their side's" policies like Gun control or Abortion.
The "Left" isn't perfect, but it is FAR less susceptible from this tribalism, and it causes them to be fractured. This is why you see nuts on the left tend to be isolated into pockets unable to form a good coalition, because they are typically not immune from criticism from "their own side."
The problem is the Democrats act like the Right has those same standards, but the Right takes advantage of the loyalty of their base, and in brilliant fashion.
Agree or disagree?
Bonus: someone stated “Democrats fall in love, conservatives fall in line”..
Completely wrong:
Conservatism is based on logic, reason and the belief that the individual rights trump those of the central government.
Liberalism is based on emotion and susceptibility to propaganda, and the belief that the power and rights of the state (or the collective) are held in higher regard than the rights of the individual.
One simply has to look at history to understand that the above is true.
Conservatives are less tribal by nature, we all speak the same language, we all enjoy the same entertainment, we all enjoy the same type of work or hobbies. We are human, we don't seek to differentiate ourselves from our humanity like those on the left strive for. Community, family, religion, and country is more important than identity. We define identity only as American.
That is probably why Mike Pence describes himself as a Christian fist, a conservative second, a Republican third, and an American fourth.
Conservatism is based on logic, reason and the belief that the individual rights trump those of the central government.
Liberalism is based on emotion and susceptibility to propaganda, and the belief that the power and rights of the state (or the collective) are held in higher regard than the rights of the individual.
One simply has to look at history to understand that the above is true.
If that’s what conservatism is, you need to call up the self proclaimed conservative Governors of Ohio, Mississippi, Louisiana and Missouri who signed bills virtually banning abortion and tell them they’re doing it all wrong.
Conservatism is based on logic, reason and the belief that the individual rights trump those of the central government.
Liberalism is based on emotion and susceptibility to propaganda, and the belief that the power and rights of the state (or the collective) are held in higher regard than the rights of the individual.
What about the "power and rights" of the local government, the local community and the local group? What does conservatism have to say about that, relative to individual rights?
Bonus: someone stated “Democrats fall in love, conservatives fall in line”..
liberals think with their heart, conservatives think with their brain
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