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SOME blacks would have gotten in anyway, under the more demanding "white" standard. But other blacks, without benefit of the lower standard, would have been rejected. So people knowing that blacks, as a whole, do not have to meet the same high standards as whites to get admitted wonder whether the black student got in on his own merits, or the "rope line" was lowered for him to get in.
But you cannot have it both ways. You cannot demand to keep racist policies that allow blacks in at a level where whites are soundly rejected, and then complain that people wonder whether any specific black kid got in on his own, or was a poorer student who got in thanks to AA.
For example, I am Jewish (in case you forgot). If Jews were not well represented in college and thus requirements for their admission were lowered, and everyone knew that, it would work against a smart Jewish kid who WOULD HAVE GOTTEN IN ANYWAY.
If you want people to look at black graduates from prestigious programs - be they Ivy or med schools - the same way they look at whites from those same programs, you have to abolish AA. Then people k ow that the black graduate competed fairly against other applicants, including whites, and came out among the top.
You are not talking to me.....you are talking at me. I certainly have not complained. I am not complaining about the side effects born from AA (people thinking no black person met the general standards). What I am saying, and its a statement and not a complaint, is that people who see the black race as inferior WILL ALWAYS ASSUME that there was a more qualified person who is white.
Given that, why should standards be lowered for black kids to get into prestigious schools rather than have them just go to wherever their grades/scores will take them? A bachelor's degree in a marketable field from a state university is enough to form the groundwork for a good career, combined with hard work and motivation during that career.
My sibling went to the state university, then "wowed" his first employer with his smarts and work ethic, and was rewarded with a tuition-paid grad degree. He was head of the department by age 30, and made very decent money. What is wrong with that? Why do we have to lower standards to allow blacks into Ivy schools when they would qualify for state u. on their own?
(Answer: because liberal elitists are the ones behind AA polices. SNOBS every one.)
Well.....lets turn it around.....since its about simply status......why are whites complaining about blacks getting into schools that are just about status? I mean....if the white person does not get in.....they are going to go to a state university or some other "good school" and become what they were going to become.
Well.....lets turn it around.....since its about simply status......why are whites complaining about blacks getting into schools that are just about status? I mean....if the white person does not get in.....they are going to go to a state university or some other "good school" and become what they were going to become.
You are ignoring the inequity of standards! You can't just draw a parallel like that. Whites are complaining that they were rejected with a 3.8 while blacks were accepted with a 3.2. If both blacks AND whites want the status that goes along with an Ivy, then it is justifiable that higher-scoring whites who were rejected are angry about it. It's a little more nervy when blacks who ONLY got in because of racist AA policies are annoyed at whites for pointing out favoritism toward blacks.
Also, re your question/statement about Jewish wealth, you have bought into the liberal lie that Jews are wealthy (and we all know how liberals feel about the wealthy). I would like you to know that the vast majority of Jews are middle-class, in households earning less than $100k, and they got there through doing well in public school and public colleges (and of course working hard). This resentment toward Jews by positioning them as "wealthy" is just breeding more antisemitism among liberals. (Do I recall correctly that you said, in another thread, that you don't care about bigotry toward Jews and that you support Farrakhan? If so, you really have a lot of chutzpah comolaining about bigotry toward blacks.)
If AA for minorities must go, so should legacy admissions (largely white AA). Get rid of race on applications altogether.
There is a scene in the film, "Back to School" where one of the professor complains the Rodney Dangerfield character isn't academically qualified and shouldn't be attending the university. The University Dean replies, "You don't seem to understand he wrote a check.... a very large check."
Not sure if universities will go for that (ending of legacy admissions) too much money/prestige involved.
AA on the other hand is/was mainly a feel good measure. A measure I'm sure many schools today would privately support ending given the years of legal disputes.
JFC. I can't quote myself saying it's fair to use wealth and family connection because I never said that. I said it's fair to demonstrate one's ability and motivation by ALSO participating in leadership roles (the example I gave was editor of the school paper) in addition to getting good grades and high test scores. I also pointed out that these are available to blacks as well as whites.
But I draw the line at skin color. The only people who think we should have race-based policies that treat black applicants differently from whites, Jews, and Asians (the "wealthy" according to liberals) are liberals like you who support racist policies.
Oh? So when I said to you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good
You didn't explain anything. All you've said is that it's cool to use money and family to get into school, but not race.
And then you replied...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976
I've explained it over and over, but your hate and resentment for whites won't allow you to hear it.
You were just talking out of your neck? Makes sense.
You draw the line at race, but you don't draw the line at genealogy or wealth. At some point, you're going to need to explain your rational, instead of lying that you "explained it over and over."
You are ignoring the inequity of standards! You can't just draw a parallel like that. Whites are complaining that they were rejected with a 3.8 while blacks were accepted with a 3.2. If both blacks AND whites want the status that goes along with an Ivy, then it is justifiable that higher-scoring whites who were rejected are angry about it. It's a little more nervy when blacks who ONLY got in because of racist AA policies are annoyed at whites for pointing out favoritism toward blacks.
Also, re your question/statement about Jewish wealth, you have bought into the liberal lie that Jews are wealthy (and we all know how liberals feel about the wealthy). I would like you to know that the vast majority of Jews are middle-class, in households earning less than $100k, and they got there through doing well in public school and public colleges (and of course working hard). This resentment toward Jews by positioning them as "wealthy" is just breeding more antisemitism among liberals. (Do I recall correctly that you said, in another thread, that you don't care about bigotry toward Jews and that you support Farrakhan? If so, you really have a lot of chutzpah comolaining about bigotry toward blacks.)
I don't care that whites are not getting in because some blacks got in with lower test scores. Theses same whites did not get in, also, because there test scores and criteria was less than other whites. If 20 blacks get accepted with lower standards, and 1,000 whites get rejected.....I am pretty sure, mathematically, that Affirmative Action is not why the vast majority of them did not get accepted. Hence, its really not justified for the vast majority of those whites who did not make it.....to be angry at Affirmative Action. It's illogical...if they can't see that their anger is illogical and misplaced....then maybe they were not really smart enough to be accepted.
Wealth is relative. I am talking relative to blacks. You are always bringing up Jews as an example of an oppressed people who are doing better than blacks. Thus, I asked you if Jews were so oppressed in America....how did they become so much more wealthy and successful than blacks in America? Obviously gentile whites found enough about you to trade your goods and services with them....allowing you to amass income and wealth at higher rates than blacks. That is all I am saying.
I don't care that whites are not getting in because some blacks got in with lower test scores. Theses same whites did not get in, also, because there test scores and criteria was less than other whites. If 20 blacks get accepted with lower standards, and 1,000 whites get rejected.....I am pretty sure, mathematically, that Affirmative Action is not why the vast majority of them did not get accepted. Hence, its really not justified for the vast majority of those whites who did not make it.....to be angry at Affirmative Action. It's illogical...if they can't see that their anger is illogical and misplaced....then maybe they were not really smart enough to be accepted.
Wealth is relative. I am talking relative to blacks. You are always bringing up Jews as an example of an oppressed people who are doing better than blacks. Thus, I asked you if Jews were so oppressed in America....how did they become so much more wealthy and successful than blacks in America? Obviously gentile whites found enough about you to trade your goods and services with them....allowing you to amass income and wealth at higher rates than blacks. That is all I am saying.
That's it right there. *You don't care. What you care is that Blacks are accepted in numbers deemed appropriate. Now, if this means Whites and/or Asians get bumped... well they might not have made it anyway. Case in point my nephew. But we don't know if that's true. Which is why lawsuits over AA are never-ending.
Legacy admissions? I don't think it's illegal anymore than offering scholarships to athletes is out of bounds. You want to get rid of one or both? Fine with me. I wouldn't have qualified for either.
Nevertheless, school admission is just one aspect of AA which needs to go. I would remove race from all types of applications.
If I were President the first thing I would do is give every adult a mirror. You want answer to your problems? You can start by looking in the mirror.
*Which I don't necessarily think makes anyone a bad person. It just means they care about what is best for them and/or those closest to them. Human nature.
[b] I don't care that whites are not getting in because some blacks got in with lower test scores. Theses same whites did not get in, also, because there test scores and criteria was less than other whites. If 20 blacks get accepted with lower standards, and 1,000 whites get rejected.....I am pretty sure, mathematically, that Affirmative Action is not why the vast majority of them did not get accepted. Hence, its really not justified for the vast majority of those whites who did not make it.....to be angry at Affirmative Action. It's illogical...if they can't see that their anger is illogical and misplaced....then maybe they were not really smart enough to be accepted.
Wealth is relative. I am talking relative to blacks. You are always bringing up Jews as an example of an oppressed people who are doing better than blacks. Thus, I asked you if Jews were so oppressed in America....how did they become so much more wealthy and successful than blacks in America? Obviously gentile whites found enough about you to trade your goods and services with them....allowing you to amass income and wealth at higher rates than blacks. That is all I am saying.
You don't care about whites getting into college? Then why should white people care SO MUCH about blacks getting into college that they would support racist policies that favor lower-achieving blacks over themselves?
We need to stop the racism in college admissions. If that means that more Jews and Asians get in by virtue of merit, and fewer blacks, fine; the blacks that DO get in will have earned it fair and square, and people will know that.
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