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Old 12-16-2019, 12:29 PM
 
Location: South of Heaven
7,928 posts, read 3,477,856 times
Reputation: 11617

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Also heard this this morning...

Lindsey Graham will not try to “pretend to be a fair juror” should Donald Trump face an impeachment trial in the US Senate.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e-a-fair-juror
Honesty is never appreciated in a politician. Perhaps he should follow the example set by Schiff and pretend to be fair while those who support his efforts pretend to believe him.
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,201 posts, read 19,224,183 times
Reputation: 38267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
To further clarify, obstruction of Congress was invented for this impeachment. They made it up because they know for a fact that they failed to invoke the actual rule of law where their subpoenas were concerned by handing it off to the judiciary, which would then open up obstruction of justice (an actual crime) if Trump still refused a court order.

Obstructing Congress is a DUTY of the Executive branch, featured prominently in Article II of the US Constitution. Co-equal branches of government not cooperating with each other is a feature, not a bug. That's why it is not an actual crime, but a made up one, akin to saying "we further find the President guilty of constantly annoying us and not letting us have our way, even when our way is totally outside the rule of law. He's a meanie and a doo-doo head!" The President is supposed to stymie and annoy Congress. That's the Executive's job as check on Legislative power.
You'd better tell your law school to take back your degree.

But I'm sure you don't have one so never mind.
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:30 PM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,931,811 times
Reputation: 10651
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Better agree about not all that long ago...

"This is not about politics. This is about the rule of law. Republicans and Democrats alike should defend it above all else.

In my nearly 96 years, I have seen our country rise above extraordinary challenges — the Great Depression, World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, segregation, assassinations, the resignation of a president and 9/11, to name just a few.

I continue to believe in and pray for the ability of all Americans to overcome our differences and pursue the common good. Order protects liberty, and liberty protects order."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/16/o...stigation.html

William Webster, a former federal judge, was director of the F.B.I. from 1978 to 1987, and director of the C.I.A. from 1987 to 1991.

"The rule of law is the bedrock of American democracy, the principle that protects every American from the abuse of monarchs, despots and tyrants. Every American should demand that our leaders put the rule of law above politics."

Is this not still true today?!? Seems we are demanding something else entirely lately. To many of us anyway...
Can't disagree with what you are saying, but you do understand that the rule of law is inconvenient for those that want to profit from lawlessness. Whether that profit is measured in dollars or in power.

The "rule of law" concept is ultimately based on rationality. Law is a highly rational system based on duality and logical argument. One of the reasons why we are veering away from being a nation of laws is that we are no longer value critical thinking and rational skills, in fact we delight in tossing these old-fashioned ideas into the waste-bin.

Populist dogma just feels better to many people; so we have become a nation where we govern based on feelings, not on law. This is why someone like Trump is so popular, governing based on law is hard slogging work; it's a lot easier to stop thinking, and start accepting the latest pronouncements flowing from Great Leader's mouth.
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:31 PM
 
29,552 posts, read 9,733,904 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouser View Post
Yes I did read it !

Actions do speak louder then words, Director Wrey in my opinion has not put forth enough
effort to restore the credibility of the F.B.I.

I do understand your point, however someone might want to remind the Democrats
in the Intelligence and Judicial branches and the saddest part of their actions is they
are the ones who clearly think they are above the law, the evidence is clear for all except for the blind, deaf and stupid.
Again the issue is not whether the Democrats or Republicans are more or less in the right or wrong but what sort of actions on the part of our leadership needs to HELP restore whatever lost confidence or credibility in these institutions rather than undermine them further. Easier said than done of course, but that's also the other point of this thread! What we used to better agree about fundamentally and still should...
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:32 PM
 
13,966 posts, read 5,632,409 times
Reputation: 8621
Do you know what the veto power is? It's the power for one person, in one office to simply negate the majority will of both the House and Senate. In other words, explicit permission via the US Constitution to obstruct the wishes of the Legislature. Sure, the House and Senate can then go back and shoot for veto-proof super majorities to override that obstruction, but until they do, that one power the Executive possesses...VETO, is a big fat obstruction of Congress just waiting to happen.

Now that the Democrats have totally cheapened and watered down what is impeachable, how long before a President gets impeached for vetoing a bill, under the heading that doing so is obstruction of Congress?

And I am supposed to listen to ex-head of FBI and CIA, agencies who both exist and operate almost entirely OUTSIDE the rule of law, about how we need these agencies living outside the rule of law, now more than ever, in order to somehow protect the rule of law by wildly violating it whenever they please?
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:32 PM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,631,426 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Can't disagree with what you are saying, but you do understand that the rule of low is inconvenient for those that want to profit from lawlessness. Whether that profit is measured in dollars or in power.

The "rule of law" concept is ultimately based on rationality. Law is a highly rational system based on duality and logical argument. One of the reasons why we are veering away from being a nation of laws is that we are no longer value critical thinking and rational skills, in fact we delight in tossing these idea into the waste-bin. Populist dogma just feels better to many people; we have become a nation of feelings, not of laws.
The rule of law wasn't an issue when Comey said Hillary broke the law but shouldn't be prosecuted because she didn't intent to break it.
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:33 PM
 
29,552 posts, read 9,733,904 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Executive privilege.

But ignoring that for a moment, you're crime is process laws?

Congress, "Jump through 50 hoops and give us every document there is so we can comb through it and find a crime. If we can't find a crime, we will leak stuff to embarrass people and effect the election. If you refuse to play our game, you're obstructing."

Basically, the crime was winning the election unless you can point out an actual crime.
See the Articles of Impeachment cartoon I posted and what else needs saying? Are you the Donkey or the Elephant? Answer is obvious...
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:34 PM
 
5,341 posts, read 6,525,380 times
Reputation: 6107
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Again, is this some sort of argument against the rule of law? Because of the failings?



The whole political life of JFK is an example of this

J.Edgar, The Mob

Where did Joe Sr. get the extra cash and boost from, especially in Chicago
Why all of the sudden did J.Edgar & JFK become so close after known issues

And all of this seemed to beam right over Bobby's head
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:35 PM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,631,426 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
See the Articles of Impeachment cartoon I posted and what else needs saying? Are you the Donkey or the Elephant? Answer is obvious...
The impeachment is a joke.

If you weren't praying to your donkey god, you'd realize that.
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:36 PM
 
29,552 posts, read 9,733,904 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouser View Post
FACTS

There is not a chapter in the liberal handbook for proper deflection
What facts I have heard and seen presented clearly make it impossible not to go forward with investigation and ruling, or no doubt we truly have thrown the rule of law right out the White House window...
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