Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't think that anyone is disputing the COVID-19 has killed thousands and thousands of people, but the question is how many deaths attributed to COVID-19 in which there are no other factors?
I don't think anyone has the answer to that, and here is one M.D. who does claim that the deaths due to COVID-19 are being inflated for nefarious reasons. ("Nefarious", btw, is my word, not his, but read the following and judge for yourself.")
Here are just two excerpts from the article, although the entire article is well worth a read, imo.
"I’ve never been encouraged to [notate 'influenza']," [Dr. Jensen] said. "I would probably write 'respiratory arrest' to be the top line, and the underlying cause of this disease would be pneumonia ... I might well put emphysema or congestive heart failure, but I would never put influenza down as the underlying cause of death and yet that’s what we are being asked to do here."
[snip]
"Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000; three times as much. Nobody can tell me, after 35 years in the world of medicine, that sometimes those kinds of things [have] impact on what we do."
To what end? For me, it's great personal satisfaction. You have to choose your reason.
The leftist response to any issue spans the spectrum from glaring condescension to pure panic. When I am wrong about something, I say I'm wrong. I've apologized to posters when I've been wrong before. But have you ever seen a leftist do it? When they are wrong about something, they just quit talking about it. Or they post some low-grade, snarky BS that passes as wit for them because they have no other argument.
Have you heard anyone say they were wrong about the whole Russian Collusion hoax? These people were and perhaps still are amplifiers for the failed Crossfire Hurricane smear operation. Leftists on these boards bleated on endlessly about it ... endlessly. Hear anybody say they were wrong? Me neither. So I tell them hey are wrong. On anything.
Still worthwhile for me.
I understand....so well. In fact, that was me a few years back. Except that you're a nicer guy than I am.
Where I'm a little confused, though, is about where the personal satisfaction comes from. Have you brought any of them out of the darkness of their ignorance? Enticed any to exit their upside down world? Heard any apologies or thank yous? Rhetorical, of course, as you have already answered.
For me, it was nothing but personal frustration....and all I had to show for it was 5 infractions in my early years here. I don't have your patience.
I changed course and gave my heart health a boost by, instead, putting them all on ignore. Every last upside down, inside out mind who shouts their confusion to the world. I correspond very selectively, exactly as in real life. With quality posters like yourself.
"Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000; three times as much. Nobody can tell me, after 35 years in the world of medicine, that sometimes those kinds of things [have] impact on what we do."
I disagree to a certain extent, is he saying they are not going to test the patients, and just SAY they have Covid19?
Because we only count tested cases. I doubt medicare is going to pay without a test being done.
__________________ ____________________________________________
My posts as a Mod will always be in red.
Be sure to review Terms of Service: TOS
And check this out: FAQ
Moderator: Relationships Forum / Hawaii Forum / Dogs / Pets / Current Events
I understand....so well. In fact, that was me a few years back. Except that you're a nicer guy than I am.
Where I'm a little confused, though, is about where the personal satisfaction comes from. Have you brought any of them out of the darkness of their ignorance? Enticed any to exit their upside down world? Heard any apologies or thank yous? Rhetorical, of course, as you have already answered.
For me, it was nothing but personal frustration....and all I had to show for it was 5 infractions in my early years here. I don't have your patience.
I changed course and gave my heart health a boost by, instead, putting them all on ignore. Every last upside down, inside out mind who shouts their confusion to the world. I correspond very selectively, exactly as in real life. With quality posters like yourself.
Thank you for your contributions here.
You are entirely welcome.
Nothing left to do but offer a toast to your improved health. I think you made a smart choice.
I don't think that anyone is disputing the COVID-19 has killed thousands and thousands of people, but the question is how many deaths can truly be attributed to COVID-19 (meaning that that was the main or only cause of death)?
It doesn't matter. If a person has heart disease, or diabetes, or kidney disease, then contracts COVID-19 and dies, it was COVID-19 that killed them, not the chronic condition. The chronic condition may make a person more susceptible to COVID-19, and less able to fight off the virus, but the chronic condition did not kill them. They'd likely still be alive - all things being equal - had they not contracted COVID-19.
Looks like Texas is drafting up a plan to reopen the state. No details yet, but those are on the way. If Texas opens in the near future and it's not an apocalypse, then I'm sure some other states will follow suit.
The biggest gripe you hear about COVID mortality statistics is "they're counting all kinds of deaths to make the problem look worse than it really is." Well, one way to debunk that is to look at the number of fatalities resulting from respiratory illness. If the number of those deaths is in excess than what is normally observed, then we know the numbers are not being inflated.
Good point.
But you don't even have to go that far. You can simply look at the number of deaths per day and know that something is wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Historically, it has always been difficult for epidemiologists to separate influenza deaths from pneumonia deaths. So in a way, it makes sense to look at both data points together.
Yes, and there are several reasons for that.
A group of virus cause Influenza-like Illnesses (ILIs) which can all lead to pneumonia.
Those virus are corona, influenza, parainfluenza, adenovirus and respiratory synctical virus (RSV).
So, you pick up corona virus, that results in bronchitis, then in your weakened state, you pick up RSV and that leads to pneumonia.
Or, maybe your daughter brings home adenovirus from pre-school and in your weakened state you pick up influenza or parainfluenza leading to pneumonia.
Influenza tests are not routinely performed, and there are several reasons for that.
An influenza test is performed only if the patient is hospitalized and then only if the patient fails to respond to aggressive treatment.
The influenza tests are not even remotely accurate. They routinely give false positives and false negatives, because the test is dependent on virus shedding, which is when the cell ruptures and the replicated virus sally forth.
The SARS test is instructive: on any given day of the clinical course, SARS shedding in the nasopharynx varies widely from individual to individual, ranging from below the detection limit to as high as 108 RNA copies/mL; male patients and elderly patients are more likely to have detectable virus shedding, suggesting that individual host differences in viral shedding surpass the variation during the clinical course for each individual.
In case anyone was wondering, 10 to the 8th power is 100,000,000.
Anyway, if virus shedding is below the detection limit for the COVID-19 test, it will give a false negative.
That is the exact opposite of influenza where virus shedding is higher in infants/children than middle age adults and higher still than the elderly, so influenza tests routinely give false negatives for the elderly due to the lower incidence of virus shedding.
The biggest gripe you hear about COVID mortality statistics is "they're counting all kinds of deaths to make the problem look worse than it really is." Well, one way to debunk that is to look at the number of fatalities resulting from respiratory illness. If the number of those deaths is in excess than what is normally observed, then we know the numbers are not being inflated.
What? If we see ANY increase in deaths from respiratory illness, that proves CV death records are not inflated? How? We didn't have any increases month over month for respiratory failure deaths in 2019? I think you are trying to build a correlation that doesn't really exist.
April 11th ... Sweden still has not locked down. Waiting for the apocalypse that's bound to happen any minute over there.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
