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I find it really sad that the GOP didn't try harder in the South to get more African-American votes. During the 1970s and 80s, there was a push to increase the "religious right wing". Considering Blacks are more numerous in the South than any other U.S. region, it would have been a good place to start. Black Americans tend to be very religious. Many religious Republicans could have tried harder to get more Black votes. But, alas, it wasn't meant to be.
In fact, one of the influences of the religious right during its early years involved the Bob Jones University controversy. While most universities integrated, Bob Jones University (in Greenville,SC) refused. It would admit Asian students, but it refused to admit Black students until 1971. In 1970, the IRS said that it would not give federal tax exemptions to private schools with racially discriminatory admission policies. Between 1971 and 1975, only married Black students could attend. However, it had a policy against interracial dating/marriage. BJU had its tax exemptions status revoked retroactively. One of the architects of the religious right was Paul Weyrich. According to Randall Balmer, religious historian, Paul Weyrich had this to say regarding to origins of the religious right:
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-In the course of one of the sessions, Weyrich tried to make a point to his Religious Right brethren (no women attended the conference, as I recall). Let's remember, he said animatedly, that the Religious Right did not come together in response to the Roe decision. No, Weyrich insisted, what got us going as a political movement was the attempt on the part of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to rescind the tax-exempt status of Bob Jones University because of its racially discriminatory policies.
It was BJU having their tax exemption status revoked that was a big part of it. In a way, I get why there wasn't more push to get more Blacks into the religious right fold. The abortion issue would come later. The South had long been a Democratic region. After the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and later the Voting Rights Act of 1965, this was the beginning of the end for Democrats in the South. More Blacks could vote than ever before. And alot of Blacks were registering as Democrats in the South. More and more Whites started registering as Republicans.
Lee Atwater mentioned that politicians started out saying the N word in the 1950s. By the late 1960s and early 70s, said politicians switched to talking about busing and states' rights. Instead of saying "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever", you say "forced busing" and "states rights". You can appeal to some lingering racial resentment without saying "race is the issue". Ronald Reagan said that he was for states' right at a fair in Neshoba County,Mississippi. Now, consider this. This is 1980, 16 years after 3 civil rights activists were murdered in the county, by local police officers. In a place like Mississippi, with the history that it has, "states rights" can easily be a dog whistle for those who still pine for the days when you could say "no Blacks allowed".
When it comes to religion, and certain political views, both Blacks and southern Whites share some things in common. Sadly, alot of racial issues make for very polarizing voting patterns.
You're overstating your case. There are a lot of Catholics in and around Boston. There are a lot of Jews in NY, NJ, etc.
Yep. And alot of them are hard-hat Democrats. And then many are not devoutly religious. There are many Boston area Catholics who only go to church 2 times a year. Catholics for whom religion doesn't play a big role in their life.
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Nope. Biden has represented a traditionally Southern state, not PA, for decades. Pelosi, the devout Catholic who frequently claims to pray for everyone, has represented California for decades. White. Religious. Democrats.
He was born Pennsylvania and spent part of his life there. He moved to Delaware when he was about 11. He lived in a southern state, but one bordered by PA and NJ, with Wilmington in it. Wilmington is basically an extension of Philadelphia. He was born into the Catholic faith, and likely still believes in it. However, he doesn't seem particularly devout at this point.
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40% of Blacks are Baptist. They overwhelmingly vote Dem. Left-wingers. Only 13% of Whites are Baptist.
And a majority of Blacks live in the South. 13% of Whites are Baptist. Guess where a majority of them live. The South, i.e. The Bible Belt. White Southerners are more religious compared to their counter parts in other regions. White Southerners vote Republican in large numbers relative to Whites in the northeast, West Coast, and the Great Lakes region.
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Boston's Catholic population at about 2 million outnumbers the entire state of Louisiana's Catholic population (1.3 million).
And Louisiana's Catholic population is still more likely to vote Republican than Boston's Catholic population.
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You are twisting yourself into knots to push 'but what about whitey?' How does that improve outcomes for the Black population? It doesn't. Whites don't have the problems of an egregiously high 70% unwed birth rate which begets the consequent problems of a 65% single-parent household rate and a 32% childhood poverty rate. Furthermore, "whitey" isn't causing Blacks to behave in self-destructive ways or to embrace self-destructive cultural values. Focus on the Black population and WHY they fully embrace such self-destructive behaviors and cultural values at the behest of no one but themselves.
Actually, you are the one with issues. You're trying to say "Democrats are more religious than Republicans". I've got enough experience and math to prove otherwise.
I never once said White people caused Blacks to have kids out of wedlock. Now you are the one making the accusations. You started this. I merely wanted to talk about how we have leaders in the churches who aren't doing their job, who are accepting of certain self-destructive behaviors.
And something else. What do you expect me to do other than behave myself? I have no more power of this issue than you do. And you, along with other non Blacks, are talking about it more than what I'm hearing from Black people. I have to wonder what stake you have in it.
To summarize--there is no data to show that the black "illegitimacy" figure of 70 percent has been caused by unmarried black women having more kids than they did in the past. In fact, the trend is the exact opposite. What is clear is that the behavior of married black women has changed, to the point that married black women are actually having less kids than married white women.
I think about this. Married Black women are definitely having fewer children. I also want to point this out. Black women with college degrees have far lower OOW birth rates than Black women with only an associates or less. It's not just math, I see living proof of it often. Most of the Black that I personally know, who went to college and graduated, they didn't have kids out of wedlock. They found a man, got married, then had kids. Strangely, they tend to have fewer kids.
What I notice, based on math, is this. There is a problem. A big part of it isn't middle class Black women having a man by their partner and the partner sticking around for years (without getting married). If you look at education level, it's not the Black women with Bachelors, Masters, and Doctorate degrees contributing to the lion's share of this. The largest portion of this comes from women who barely graduate from high school. Alot of it is coming from pregnant teenagers.
Before anyone uses this as a chance to say "see, racism isn't making you do self-destructive things", zip it up right now. Out of wedlock births and job discrimination have nothing to with each other and they are separate issues. I agree that having kids out of wedlock is not a good idea. I agree that having kids out of wedlock, particularly if you are jobless, is not a good idea. I know it increases your chances of poverty. I learned about this stuff in middle school. It goes without saying. However, you can do all the right things, and still deal with discrimination everyday. You can do the right thing, and still deal with the police pulling you over and harassing you because the officer, or someone who called the police because someone felt "he's suspicious, he doesn't belong". 70% OOW birth rate, no one is making people have kids out of wedlock. It still doesn't negate certain forms of racism taking place.
Back to the topic. A lion's share of out of wedlock births are from women who aren't doing too well in the education realm.
My Black and Bible-thumping colleagues would love to have prayer in public school.
Before the Supreme Court legalized same sex marriage, we had a referendum in Maryland. It passed, but not by a wide margin. Blacks overwhelmingly opposed it.
And though rare, it has not been unheard of for some Black employees to email Bible passages to others.
As I just said, I see little difference between them and their white counterparts in the South. They are simply outnumbered up here.
Nope. The question asked was the reason why people believe the majority of Christians are right-wingers. The reason is because of the loud group among the right wingers, particularly the Religious Right.
No one is saying that your post is not true but the reality is that they are not the loudest group and are not given the most attention.
Funny how you bather on and provide no proof or facts yet expect people to believe what you post. It wasn't the religious right who forced gay marriage down the throats of private business owners when no ones rights have been violated. Welcome to modern day Jim Crow.
Follow the conversation and stop being overemotional. The question asked was the reason why people believe the majority of Christians are right-wingers. The reason is because of the loud group among the right wingers, particularly the Religious Right.
Not true, at all. Like I said, Pelosi, Biden, Cuomo, and many other Dems are White Christians and most certainly have a very loud public voice.
It's quite the opposite. Republicans are far more likely to support and defend the US Constitution, unlike Dems which seek to trample Constitutional Rights.
Wrong, again. Pelosi, for example, frequently infuses religion into her public statements.
Like it or not. None of the above are as loud as the Religious Right and a number of other Republicans who insist combining church and state when it suits them. They are threat to true religious liberty and only desire Constitutional rights for themselves.
Interesting point. Blacks in California overwhelmingly opposed same sex marriage when Prop 8 was on the ballot. Much moreso than Whites.
But they are not as loud, not are they given as much attention as the Religious Right. White Republicans often declare their party as the Christian one. That is the reason why people mistake whites are more religious.
I'm not perfect, as your interactions with me have shown you. However, one thing I've stayed away from is premarital sex. That is one thing I don't engage in. My decision to not engage in premarital sex is influenced by things my father has told me regarding sex. He said to me at a young age that the best way to prevent teen pregnancy is to wait until marriage to have sex. My decision is also influenced by my faith. That is another big reason why.
I live in the southern USA, and fundamentalism looms large down here. I have the personal experience of what I grew up around to prove it. I notice it is White conservatives down here who were the loudest about their faith. Ironically, some of those very persons will cheat on their spouses.
That is the best approach. Avoiding pre-marital sex is a deterrent to many of the ills that plague our society. You are blessed to have a father who spoke with you candidly about the matter at a young age. My family was different - not much discussion about those matters. Thankfully, I avoided pre-marital sex and teen pregnancy out of the desire attend a top university and also not to shame my family. Faith was a significant part of my life but did not have as much of an influence that area.
Yes, white conservatives were and still are the loudest. I attended a fundamental Southern Baptist school for years growing up and kept up with some individuals after leaving. Multiple girls became teen mothers but basically all of them married before the children were born. Those who came from wealthier families did fine but those who didn’t struggled. But they were always taught to focus on motherhood. When asked what they wanted to be when they grew up, the vast majority answered that being a mother was their goal. I was one of the odd ones out who said I wanted to be a lawyer. Very few had other ambitions.
Living in the South is very interesting. As you said, white conservatives are the loudest but not devoid of a host of vices. They just tend to focus on certain faith-based issues and attempt to politicize them.
But they are not as loud, not are they given as much attention as the Religious Right. White Republicans often declare their party as the Christian one. That is the reason why people mistake whites are more religious.
This is true. I don't see that many Blacks getting into issues like gay rights and abortion. Whenever I see protests for and against, I see mostly Whites getting involved. Me personally, I worry about what affects me directly.
Relative to Blacks, Whites are less religious. However, it doesn't tell the whole story. Whites are a majority in most states. The only state where Whites are less than 50% of the population are: Texas, California, New Mexico, and Hawaii. Religiosity among Whites is not evenly distributed in the USA. Vermont is the least religious state in the USA. Whites are 93% of the population. Vermont is among the most liberal states in the USA. Contrast with Mississippi, the most religious state. Yes, Blacks are 37% of the population. Whites are 58% of the population. The vast majority of both groups in that state are religious. 85% of Mississippi residents say religion is a major part of their lives. Higher than any other state. The way Whites and Blacks vote in Mississippi is stratified though. Most Blacks vote Democrat while most Whites vote Republican. And the Republican Party is often looked at as "the Christian party" in Mississippi, at least among many Whites.
I grew up in Georgia, 25 miles west of Atlanta. Where I lived (at least between the late 1990s into the mid 2000s), Whites were about 90% of the population and a very Republican county (George W. Bush won 3/4 of the vote there). I lived 1 mile from a church. And there was another church 1 mile from that one. Alot of churches all over the county.
That is the best approach. Avoiding pre-marital sex is a deterrent to many of the ills that plague our society. You are blessed to have a father who spoke with you candidly about the matter at a young age. My family was different - not much discussion about those matters. Thankfully, I avoided pre-marital sex and teen pregnancy out of the desire attend a top university and also not to shame my family. Faith was a significant part of my life but did not have as much of an influence that area.
Yes, white conservatives were and still are the loudest. I attended a fundamental Southern Baptist school for years growing up and kept up with some individuals after leaving. Multiple girls became teen mothers but basically all of them married before the children were born. Those who came from wealthier families did fine but those who didn’t struggled. But they were always taught to focus on motherhood. When asked what they wanted to be when they grew up, the vast majority answered that being a mother was their goal. I was one of the odd ones out who said I wanted to be a lawyer. Very few had other ambitions.
Living in the South is very interesting. As you said, white conservatives are the loudest but not devoid of a host of vices. They just tend to focus on certain faith-based issues and attempt to politicize them.
Reading this, I looked at it thought "thank you dad, you kept from the perils of teen pregnancy". His advice to me was this: It's better to wait.
You had goals in mind, and you didn't want to derail them. For you, that was a plus. And you mention shame. In the USA, shame is one of those things that isn't in big supply, at least in certain communities. There was a time when there was shame involved. Growing up, I don't remember that much shame involved with teen pregnancy. Then again, it all depended.
I remember during middle school and high school the health teacher (or the gym teacher) would show these videos about teen pregnancy. That was enough to stop me as well. To me boiled down to science.
I went to a public high school in the suburbs (more like exurbs) of metro Atlanta. It was about 90% White when I started, 82% White when I graduated. There might ahve been more teen pregnancy going on than what I personally saw. My high school graduating class went from 400 to 240 by the time I graduated. I wonder how many that dropped out involved pregnancies. When it came to shame, it really did depend. Most of the girls that I saw get pregnant, well, they hung out in different circles. As far as I remember, they were the trashy girls, they were the girls who got in trouble alot, or who were particularly trashy in their demeanor. I remember one girl who got pregnant. She was in my graduating class. She was mean, she was trashy. Ironically, I met her boyfriend first. He was even meaner (he threw me in a garbage can during gym class). I found out in my junior year that she dropped out, had her baby, and was likely married to that dude. I found out on myspace sometime in 2010 or 2011, that she was divorced. Actually, his was the profile I came across and stated he was divorce. 26, 27 years old and already divorced (she was about 24, 25).
In my graduating class, many kids got married and had kids before they were 23 years old. Many of them had ambitions. Whatever happened, many just didn't take on those ambitions. I remember one girl who wanted to cheerlead in the NFL. She was married and mom by age 21. She never realized that goal. She got married young and started having kids. Many didn't know what they were going to do after high school, so they just got jobs, got married early, had kids earlier. Now, you could say part of it came from "focus on motherhood", and you might be right. It is part of the culture to get married young and have kids young. On the flip side, it wasn't like alot of them were focused on becoming mothers. It just became something that happened. I think I'm one of the few in my graduating class that doesn't have a spouse or a kid. Alot of them stuck close to home. I went away, went back to my parents house, and then left again.
I went to college, graduated, and I hardly ever considered having kids.
I grew up around alot of White conservatives. There were some who went to my university. Based on my experiences, there were many people who had their own vices. I remember one White conservative that I met in college. He seemed to have it together. He had a similar view as to how the Republican Party was, in terms of values and faith. I found out what he was about one night at a restaurant. He was very drunk, and the police officer (who was doubling as a bouncer) told him to leave because he was roudy. He started yelling at that officer, and then blamed it on race. He said "I'm going to talk to the local Republican chairman and file a complaint against you because you singled me out as a White person while these Spanish people can get as drunk as they want"(this took place at a Mexican restaurant). He exposed himself that night as a racist and a hypocrite.
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