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Quoting my own post. Can we do this? People just peacefully, without stabbing at each other, just state their own experiences with racism? In an educational way? I would be really interested in hearing other posters experiences.
Here is the problem, when you state that African Americans have faced racial discrimination and injustice there goes the attacks and deflection, honestly this is part of the problem. We are arguing whether or not this man was killed and we all saw this. The deflections are tactics to justify the unjustifiable.
Look, he had underlying conditions that made him more vulnerable, but he died because a cop knelt on his neck for nine minutes, well after he was clearly incapacitated and no longer a threat. And you can't excuse it away. Comprehend that.
You writing that the cop's actions contributed to Floyd's death (I agree) does not change anything that I wrote. I've also stated that it is almost certain that Floyd would be alive if the cops didn't do what they did (or didn't do in the case of the inaction by some of the other cops). But, again, that doesn't change anything that I wrote.
This isn't that difficult to comprehend.
And, as I stated in my OP (some of you are showing clear reading comprehension issues) that the knee in the neck was clearly unacceptable even if that's not what caused Floyd's death.
I really don’t think you guys get it. You take the victim as you find them. But for the officer’s actions, Floyd would not have died. The harm within the risk of excessive physical force is that someone with underlying conditions could die. That’s actual and proximate cause right there, and it is beyond reproach. It actually doesn’t matter that he didn’t die from asphyxiation. At all. He died as a result of Chauvin’s actions. You really think he was gonna die that day otherwise? Do you think it’s even remotely reasonable to assume that?
Minnesota’s third degree murder is the depraved heart murder version. Basically the prosecution needs to show that Chauvin had a depraved indifference to human life. NOT that he had specific intent to kill Floyd. It’s more like reckless endangerment. A lower standard, and probably gonna be easy to prove in this case, particularly given the way his history reflects on his character.
Depraved heart, causation and death. All three elements are clearly present here as far as I’m concerned.
Yup. That’s all that matters.
Even without specific intent, I believe the statute says that you have to “cause” the death of the person not merely contribute to it. I think a jury could still find that neck kneeler did cause his death, like you said. But it makes the case just that much harder and give a juror an “out.”
I still feel like they could get 2nd degree murder pretty easily though. Settling for murder 3 is BS IMO. I guess the main thing is ensuring a conviction, but why not try him for both 2 and 3? Give the jury the option of either.
I don’t know why they didn’t. It could have been any number of factors.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayarea-girl
Here is the problem, when you state that African Americans have faced racial discrimination and injustice there goes the attacks and deflection, honestly this is part of the problem. We are arguing whether or not this man was killed and we all saw this. The deflections are tactics to justify the unjustifiable.
I'm not sure what you're what you're saying. This man was certainly detained in a very inhumane looking way - but it appears that wasn't the cause of his death.
He has been charged and in a much quicker manner than Noor was. You seriously don’t even know that he was indeed charged today and the specific charges? Why should anyone be more outraged about this case than Justine’s case when it took them 9 months to charge a racist cop who killed someone who was unarmed and he just got 12 years (which he will likely serve 70% or so and be let on his merry way).
Why is this case more important? Tell me. Everything has been done in a very expedited and swift manner.
Well, for starters, you don't get to decide for people what is important to them.
Second, what I should have said was "decide if he was guilty" - I was thinking of the jury when I said if he got anything at all, if it goes to a jury. You never know, he could walk. And I have little faith that he won't.
I'm not sure what you're what you're saying. This man was certainly detained in a very inhumane looking way - but it appears that wasn't the cause of his death.
How many times has the government or their workers lied to the people? I'll wait for an independent autopsy. I don't believe for one second that the knee and the weight of a grown man didn't kill this man. Floyd was detained peacefully but choked! It is clear as day. Knees to the neck is not detaining anyone
I only see one legitimate incident, in a sea of failed attempts at making things seem like legitimate incidents. By all means though, point out what you are talking about.
I tried to answer you, and for some reason, it disappeared. So, I'll try it again:
You have an entire forum of these incidents right here on this forum. Go back over the months and years of threads made about incidents. You think people forget these incidents? They don't. I'm not going to do the reading for you.
after being in lockdown so long, people were just itching to come out and riot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayarea-girl
How many times has the government or their workers lied to the people? I'll wait for an independent autopsy. I don't believe for one second that the knee and the weight of a grown man didn't kill this man. Floyd was detained peacefully but choked! It is clear as day. Knees to the neck is not detaining anyone
yeah, the weight of the body on his back made breathing difficult.
the chest cavity needs to expand to breathe, and when you're putting half your body weight on a guy's back, it makes breathing especially laborious.
after a while, a guy just gets exhausted trying to breathe, and passes out.
Even without specific intent, I believe the statute says that you have to “cause” the death of the person not merely contribute to it. I think a jury could still find that neck kneeler did cause his death, like you said. But it makes the case just that much harder and give a juror an “out.”
The intervening cause argument normally isn’t a winning argument when it comes to preexisting conditions. I mean, say I pushed an old man down the stairs and he died because he was old and had osteoporosis and broke a bunch of ribs, and then I tried to argue I wasn’t guilty of murder because an average person wouldn’t have had those sorts of injuries, and he really died due to his preexisting condition of osteoporosis. Or I slashed someone in the arm who had hemophilia and she died due to excessive blood loss that wouldn’t have occurred in a normal person, so really the hemophilia was to blame. Those are losing arguments.
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