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I pretty much agree with removing Confederate symbols and don't really care about this one but Lee was not a racist as his life before and after the war demonstrate, certainly far less racist than Lincoln,, he was a soldier defending his state from attack....oh well.
what I want is to laugh at SJW. I am getting that opportunity. if I tire of you, I will simply dismiss you.
And I get a laugh watching people get angry over the Confederate statues coming down. This is the thing. I'm not seeking to troll anyone. I want the Confederate monuments to come down for this reason. I see removing those monuments as the first step in making a better society. In order to truly be united, there are some things we just cannot pay homage to. One of those things is the Confederate "heroes". They don't represent everyone in the South. It represents a very divided society. It represents those who attempted to tear this country apart. How can we have a truly united society while lionizing/paying homage to Confederates?
Now, watching people squirm as those Confederate monuments makes me a bit happy for this reason: Society can do better than that. Those who still cling to paying homage to Confederates and flying Confederate flags are clinging to a very unjust, bigoted dream.
Well yes. The difference being, of course, that they're approaching the question of racism from the viewpoint of the oppressed. If you're of a race that has been systematically oppressed, there's power in appropriating your race. For centuries, blacks in America have been told that they're inferior, that their race was a shameful thing. So they react by refusing to be ashamed.
If black people flew a flag to commemorate a time in history where they sacrificed untold lives and treasure to keep white people in subjugation, you'd have some sort of parallel. But there wasn't such a time, so the comparison is pointless.
This is difficult or something?
see the problem is that you are throwing around the term of race...there is only one race... the human race
So all over people are being violent, rioting, looting, burning and destroying poverty. Yet this Kook, Virtue Signaling Governor is worried about a century or older Statue. Wow, such priorities. Oh, being faux offended is really hurtful.
Seriously? What exactly do you think it represents? Heritage? The southern heritage of slavery? Honor? The honor of celebrating being traitors to the USA? Being proud of showing they support a losing cause? Exactly what does it represent?
What exactly do you think it represents?
And that is the thing. Whose heritage? What heritage? What is part of that heritage? Many people try using the term "heritage" as a catch-all term. I'm not buying that.
It's been proven that the Confederate goal was to preserve a way of life that was centered around slavery. Everything about the southern way of life up to 1861 was about slavery. The cotton plantations, that easy-going, aristocratic way of life in the Deep South, slavery made it possible. The abolition of slavery meant an end of to the southern way of life, as said persons knew it.
Knowing what the Confederate cause is about, saying "it's about heritage" leaves alot to wonder. What heritage?
And that is the thing. Whose heritage? What heritage? What is part of that heritage? Many people try using the term "heritage" as a catch-all term. I'm not buying that.
It's been proven that the Confederate goal was to preserve a way of life that was centered around slavery. Everything about the southern way of life up to 1861 was about slavery. The cotton plantations, that easy-going, aristocratic way of life in the Deep South, slavery made it possible. The abolition of slavery meant an end of to the southern way of life, as said persons knew it.
Knowing what the Confederate cause is about, saying "it's about heritage" leaves alot to wonder. What heritage?
wrong
we as a country...a whole country had been talking about abolishing slavery since 1776
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a disposition to abolishslavery prevails in North America, that many of Pennsylvanians have set their slaves at liberty, and that even the Virginia Assembly have petitioned the King for permission to make a law for preventing the importation of more into that colony. This request, however, will probably not be granted as their former laws of that kind have always been repealed
Ben Franklin
The inconsistency of the institution of domestic slavery with the principles of the Declaration of
Quote:
Independence was seen and lamented by all the southern patriots of the Revolution; by no one with deeper and more unalterable conviction than by the author of the Declaration himself [Jefferson]. No charge of insincerity or hypocrisy can be fairly laid to their charge. Never from their lips was heard one syllable of attempt to justify the institution of slavery. They universally considered it as a reproach fastened upon them by the unnatural step-mother country [Great Britain] and they saw that before the principles of the Declaration of Independence, slavery, in common with every other mode of oppression, was destined sooner or later to be banished from the earth. Such was the undoubting conviction of Jefferson to his dying day. In the Memoir of His Life, written at the age of seventy-seven, he gave to his countrymen the solemn and emphatic warning that the day was not distant when they must hear and adopt the general emancipation of their slaves
John Quincy Adams
Jefferson himself had introduced a bill designed to end slavery
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Even the sacred Scriptures had been quoted to justify this iniquitous traffic. It is true that the Egyptians held the Israelites in bondage for four hundred years, . . . but . . . gentlemen cannot forget the consequences that followed: they were delivered by a strong hand and stretched-out arm and it ought to be remembered that the Almighty Power that accomplished their deliverance is the same yesterday, today, and for ever
Elias Boudinot, President of the Continental Congress
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Never in my life did I own a slave.
John Adams, Signer of the Declaration, one of only two signers of the Bill of Rights, U. S. President
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Why keep alive the question of slavery? It is admitted by all to be a great evil.
Charles Carroll, Signer of the Declaration
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As Congress is now to legislate for our extensive territory lately acquired, I pray to Heaven that they may build up the system of the government on the broad, strong, and sound principles of freedom. Curse not the inhabitants of those regions, and of the United States in general, with a permission to introduce bondage [slavery]
John Dickinson, Signer of the Constitution; Governor of Pennsylvania
[quote]
Domestic slavery is repugnant to the principles of Christianity. . . . It is rebellion against the authority of a common Father. It is a practical denial of the extent and efficacy of the death of a common Savior. It is an usurpation of the prerogative of the great Sovereign of the universe who has solemnly claimed an exclusive property in the souls of men.
[quote]
Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration
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"[T]here is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do, to see a plan adopted for the abolition of [slavery]."
George Washington
Did you know? Benjamin Franklin was president of America's first anti-slavery society. Franklin's last public act was to petition Congress on February 3, 1790, to abolishslavery, urging them to "devise means for removing the inconsistency from the character of the American People" and to "promote mercy and justice toward this distressed race."
and the civil war was not about slavery...but about taxes
Abraham Lincoln repeatedly stated his war was caused by taxes only, and not by slavery,.."My policy sought only to collect the Revenue (a 40*percent federal sales tax on imports to Southern States under the Morrill Tariff Act of 1861)." reads paragraph 5 of*Lincoln's First Message to the U.S. Congress, penned July 4, 1861.
Abraham Lincoln issued the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation on September 22nd, 1862. It stipulated that if the Southern states did not cease their rebellion and start paying their taxes by January 1st, 1863, then Proclamation would go into effect. When the Confederacy did not yield, Lincoln issued the final Emancipation Proclamation on January 1st, 1863.
The Emancipation Proclamation only applied to the states in rebellion,...it only freed 1.3 million of the over 4 million slaves.....
Lincoln did not claim slavery was a reason even in his Emancipation Proclamations on Sept. 22, 1862, and Jan. 1, 1863.* Moreover, Lincoln's proclamations*exempted a million slaves under his control from being freed (including General U.S. Grant's four slaves) and offered the South three months to return to the Union (pay 40*percent*sales tax) and keep their slaves.* None did.* Lincoln affirmed his only reason for issuing was:* "as a fit and necessary war measure for suppressing said (tax) rebellion."
in his first inaugural address, Lincoln declared that he had “no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with slavery in the States where it exists.”
Lincoln declared war to collect taxes in his two presidential war proclamations against the Confederate States, on April 15 and 19th, 1861: "Whereas an insurrection against the Government of the United States has broken out and the laws of the United States for the collection of the revenue cannot be effectually executed therein." On Dec. 25, 1860, South Carolina declared unfair taxes to be a cause of secession: "The people of the Southern States are not only taxed for the benefit of the Northern States, but after the taxes are collected, three-fourths (75%) of them are expended at the North (to subsidize Wall Street industries that elected Lincoln)."
even into the reconstruction era, which Johnson failed at miserably , the issue was taxes....all the land procured after the war, (to be given to the blacks)(which Johnson gave back to the plantation owners) would not have been able to collect taxes on for years......
the ""northern""" state of Maryland didn't abolishslavery until 1864......hmmm imagine that
On Dec. 25, 1860, South Carolina declared unfair taxes to be a cause of secession: "The people of the Southern States are not only taxed for the benefit of the Northern States, but after the taxes are collected, three-fourths (75%) of them are expended at the North (to subsidize Wall Street industries that elected Lincoln)."
Would have been cool if you've included a link, but allow me to fix that.
The title is a bit of a bad start for the "totes-not-slavery" viewpoint, there... What else can we find in this address that you claim holds South Carolina's reasons for secession? Let's have a look.
Quote:
The agitations on the subject of slavery are the natural results of the consolidation of the Government. Responsibility follows power; and if the people of the North have the power by Congress "to promote the general welfare of the United States," by any means they deem expedient – why should they not assail and overthrow the institution of slavery in the South?
Hmmm...
Quote:
The Union of the Constitution was a Union of slaveholding States. It rests on slavery, by prescribing a representation in Congress for three-fifths of our slaves...
Quote:
Time and the progress of things have totally altered the relations between the Northern and Southern States, since the Union was established. That identity of feelings, interests and institutions which once existed, is gone. They are now divided, between agricultural and manufacturing, and commercial States; between slaveholding and non-slaveholding States...
Quote:
We but imitate the policy of our fathers in dissolving a union with non-slaveholding confederates, and seeking a confederation with slaveholding States.
That slavery thing really seems to be a bit of an important bit, doesn't it? SC willingly defines herself as a slaveholding state and wants nothing to do with those who aren't. Ah well, let's move on.
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The fairest portions of the world elsewhere, have been turned into wildernesses, and the most civilized and prosperous communities have been impoverished and ruined by anti-slavery fanaticism.
Oh my.
Quote:
Citizens of the slaveholding States of the United States!
Well, they know their audience, I guess.
Quote:
South Carolina desires no destiny separated from yours. To be one of a great Slaveholding Confederacy...
Seems pretty clear. Well, I'm sure the tax bit is going to be the conclusion, right? Let's skip to the end.
Quote:
United together, and we must be a great, free and prosperous people, whose renown must spread throughout the civilized world, and pass down, we trust, to the remotest ages. We ask you to join us in forming a Confederacy of Slaveholding States.
Yeah...
Here's a thought, though. we could read the SC document called "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union", it might perhaps declare the immediate causes?
Ctrl-F for "tax" - one hit.
Ctrl-F for "slave" - eighteen hits.
The immediate causes seem a bit low on the "tax" argument, eh? Not going to bother to quote, it's a short doc. Let's just say that the disproportionate tax argument is way in the background, and slavery - isn't.
TL;DR - secession was about slavery, and the Southern Gentlemen were quite up front about it.
you look real ignorant of history with remarks that that bolded
On reflection, you are correct. Secession was not legal, and the confederates were indeed American traitors.
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