Black doll white doll....the truth we are avoiding. (radical, crime rate, bias)

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Mr. Brody. A few things. I see that you boast about having made a nice life for yourself. And that is FANTASTIC! Kudos to you for making it through. You should be applauded for navigating the gauntlet that is American racism and discrimination. I believe you have navigated it so well as to almost believe that is ceases to exist.


HOWEVER, there is only ONE Bruiser Brody in this world. You look around you and wonder that if you can do it, why can't everyone else? Well, guess what? They can't. Some won't. That's a fact of life. Peoples' lives take different paths. As hard as some may try, not everyone will be that star football player, or the multimillionaire dollar movie star. Not everyone will climb the ranks of CEO or President. Some people, through no fault of their own, could not avoid or navigate away from the clutches of systemic and institutional racism.



Even you Mr. Body, were more than likely the victim, no, recipient of racial bias or discrimination without you knowing. There is a good chance that you probably would have received even better interest rates, got a higher raise, been promoted faster, or if you own your own business, probably more customers, better prices on goods and services, etc. Unless you're GOD, there's no way to know for sure that racism or discrimination didn't hold you back from YOUR full potential. So, I find it difficult to accept the fact because you made it, that somehow those who didn't are the cause of their own station in life. Especially when there are mountains of evidence that racism and discrimination is the cause of inequality in this country. Unless you are self-loathing in believing that white people are inherently better than you in everything.


There are mountains of data, studies, and research available with just a simple Google search that will tell you that black wealth is still lower than whites not because blacks aren't trying hard enough, but because they are the perpetual victims of racism and discrimination. It's kinda hard to excel in a job, business, or whatever when those at the top who have the power to hire and fire to buy and sell hold the keys to your success. I sat and listened at a town hall my company had today at how black people in that company were discriminated against, held back, looked over, etc. It had white people in tears. But those black people are not supposed to be victims right?They were the cause of their own lack of success. Right? Tell me where their power to change the situation would come from that wouldn't exact retribution or retaliation by the same people with the power to hire, fire, promote, and increase wages? Your worldview is too naive and simple.



The thing that pisses me off about opinions like yours is that you fall into the trap of the same double standard. Black people are supposed to just accept inequality. Deal with it. Don't call a spade a spade. Don't call racism and discrimination for what it is. It's all in their mind. Black people are their own biggest obstacles. YET, white people get off the hook. The very group that perpetuates racism, discrimination, and bias doesn't have to do sh*t. They aren't responsible for anything. Not racism, not discrimination, not bias, not complicit apathy, nothing. All they have to do is continue being silently complicit feeding the dystopian status quo that you seem to so dearly love and accept as your immutable reality.



The true reality is, black people in this country have been victims of racism, discrimination, and bias for centuries. Racism doesn't disappear in an election season. It doesn't disappear after a few token civil rights laws are passed. It still exists because people like you give whites a pass while throwing blacks under the bus. That's disgusting and a pitiful display of your own ignorance and lack of compassion for others who weren't born in your shoes. No one chooses to be a victim. No one claims failure or chooses to be poor. Black people aren't begging police to kill them. No one enjoys being oppressed through policing, lack of jobs, lack of educational opportunities, lack of opportunity for upward mobility, etc. Black people are chasing the "American Dream" just as anyone else and they are protesting against those who are trying to take them out because they dare simply to exist in this country and dare to move ahead.



Truth be told, we are ALL victims of America's cancer that is racism and discrimination. This country is held back because of it. The full potential of this country is held back because of it. We all suffer when our brothers and sisters suffer. Whether we want to admit it or not. The backlash after President Obama was so severe that people were willing to cut off their nose to spite their face in voting for a reality TV star who couldn't lead water downhill. And for what?



Had there been a white president instead of Obama, we dam*n sure wouldn't have Trump in office today. There would be no white backlash and the status quo, that you so cowardly accept, supported by complicit whites, would march into the future without challenge. And in that regard, maybe it was a good thing Trump was elected. Perhaps it was the shakeup to wake up that this country needed.

Nice job!!!!!

Your ice is colder than mine, to him, so he just might get a chill from this. LOL

I am happy you spoke out.

[golgi1]

There are mountains of data, studies, and research available with just a simple Google search that will tell you that black wealth is still lower than whites not because blacks aren't trying hard enough, but because they are the perpetual victims of racism and discrimination.

I'm a scientist. No there aren't. You are making broad, inaccurate statements and obviously speaking Out of School. That science isn't possible to accomplish. If it was published, it was baby-spit weak nonsense that wasn't reviewed or published by a serious journal. It was likely printed as a blame whitey political stunt. Which is the majority purpose of the social sciences in 2020. Your phrasing was ridiculous, scientifically speaking. In fact, the first thing that such science would bump up against would be the variable of the Black crime rate that absolutely would affect "Black Wealth" and then, after that, Black academic performance which would affect the same. These are two impactful variables that would be impossible to control for, due to both their systemic effects combined with the rest of the complicated "success" model that would then have you looking at only individuals and not true group outcomes. In short, there is no possibility of a serious science methodology to draw the conclusions that you state. You can't measure whether racism is the cause of Black poverty, especially in light of so many other obvious variables that other groups do not contend with. But even controlling for them, the proposal is ridiculous. It isn't measurable.

Moving on...

This is the United States. No one has to do anything, address anything, say anything, etc.

You get the law and a chance. You don't get to remove White people or their views. You are welcome to try to persuade others within the limits of self expression, but remember that this is the Land of the Free, both for better and worse, and that identity will always win out. Neither can racists remove anti-racism. See how that works?

There are other places that are different. But that's where we are here. Most people make it work.

[Spottednikes]

Originally Posted by Bruiser Brody

Well I am a BLACK conservative telling you that you are full of it. Too may of us are full of it. Victim mentality is just that. Blaming all our issues on other people, because we have been trained to do that by our parents, our family, our friends and our democrat leaders. Life gets so much better when you stop making excuses and start creating your own results.

See, you are someone I would enjoy having over as part of a family get together, party, dinner, etc. The black woman in the video on this forum titled something like "all white people should see this", I wouldnt want to socialize with. That doesnt make me racist. Its just that I think a victim mentality, and blaming others for your lack of success goes against everything I believe in.
We had a black pres, black female marine general, black astronauts, black COS of the air force, black AG, black surgeon generals, black high level politicians, mayors, governors, doctors, attorneys, professors, nfl coaches, movie directors, tv station owners, etc.
I don't believe in white privilege, but in wealth privilege. The Obama girls will have an easier time getting into good colleges and good jobs than no name white Susie from Appalachia.

I think people need to just treat everyone equally, and if you see true racism call it out. But all these BLM, reparations, etc drive me nuts. My great grandparents came here from Sweden and Ireland in the early 1900s. My family never owned a slave, and had no family wealth to pass on. They started with nothing. So I just dont want to hear about how I owe reparations.

[momonkey]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

You know children, in those first few years of their lives, are able to learn a whole language just through observation. What they LEARN from the totality of their experiences and environments in their short little lives is OUTSTANDING and without bias. They just tell things as they see them and how it has been narrated to them.

Maybe people who see themselves ass LESS treat themselves and others like they are less....resulting in higher levels of single parent homes. It does not take a high school diploma to see how self insecurity, if not hate, can lead to failed relationships and a host of other interpersonal issues like conflict resolution. It certainly helps to explain why not only do whites see blacks negatively and treat blacks negatively in regards to discrimination and police abuse, but also why blacks themselves treat EACH OTHER negatively, which lends to much higher rates of homicide. America conditions people to see black as being inferior and blacks are subject to this conditioning as much as, if not more than, anyone else.

When did whites become responsible for the way cops treat blacks?

[momonkey]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Well....if she told her personal stories of racism you probably would, at worst, reject that what she was experiencing was racism and at best accept it but say that is anecdotal.

I am 55. I got stories to tell up the ying yang. However....I don't tell because this is not about ME. I did not really feel anything about the death of George Floyd. Why? Because my views on race, the police, etc is most profoundly the product of my personal experiences, the experience of my parents and grand parents, siblings, etc.

Here is the thing. You don't know when you are the victim of racism in MOST cases. You could have a name that sounds black or you could have an address that would lead people to assume you are black.....and your application or Resume gets thrown in the trash. How would you know?

I'm in your same age group (been working some forty years), and I have often wondered the same thing.

The job applications I filled out over the years always have a statement on the back or at the bottom of the page that says "We are an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity employer."

So which is worse, the fact that you have probably been illegally discriminated against or the fact that I have likely been legally discriminated against?

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by golgi1

I'm a scientist. No there aren't. You are making broad, inaccurate statements and obviously speaking Out of School. That science isn't possible to accomplish. If it was published, it was baby-spit weak nonsense that wasn't reviewed or published by a serious journal. It was likely printed as a blame whitey political stunt. Which is the majority purpose of the social sciences in 2020. Your phrasing was ridiculous, scientifically speaking. In fact, the first thing that such science would bump up against would be the variable of the Black crime rate that absolutely would affect "Black Wealth" and then, after that, Black academic performance which would affect the same. These are two impactful variables that would be impossible to control for, due to both their systemic effects combined with the rest of the complicated "success" model that would then have you looking at only individuals and not true group outcomes. In short, there is no possibility of a serious science methodology to draw the conclusions that you state. You can't measure whether racism is the cause of Black poverty, especially in light of so many other obvious variables that other groups do not contend with. But even controlling for them, the proposal is ridiculous. It isn't measurable.

Moving on...

This is the United States. No one has to do anything, address anything, say anything, etc.

You get the law and a chance. You don't get to remove White people or their views. You are welcome to try to persuade others within the limits of self expression, but remember that this is the Land of the Free, both for better and worse, and that identity will always win out. Neither can racists remove anti-racism. See how that works?

There are other places that are different. But that's where we are here. Most people make it work.

Well....science and emotions exists in two different realms. You are speaking from the emotional realm, trying to protect the white race and yourself, as opposed to the scientific realm of cause and effects or actions begetting reactions.

You say that black wealth deficit did not take into considerations the variables of black crime and black academic performance. However, like wealth, black crime and black academic performance can be impacted by racism and there are likely also studies that show a link between black crime and racism, as well as, black academic performance and racism. Note when I say racism.....I am not talking about, necessarily, racism in the present tense, but rather, the accrued historical impact of racism and the role of self fulfilling prophecy as it relates to white supremacy and its doctrine of black inferiority.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by momonkey

I'm in your same age group (been working some forty years), and I have often wondered the same thing.

The job applications I filled out over the years always have a statement on the back or at the bottom of the page that says "We are an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity employer."

So which is worse, the fact that you have probably been illegally discriminated against or the fact that I have likely been legally discriminated against?

Based upon the unemployment rates of blacks vs whites.....I think the obvious answer is the latter. You can't have it worse without your condition ending up worse, unless you are arguing that you are superior in some way and or I am dysfunctional in some way.

If you want to understand how I reach my conclusions, its extremely simple. I start by assuming there are no inherent differences between the race in regard to inherent capacities for achievement. Hence, if there are gaps in performance and achievement, I look for an external cause. It's binary. If the cause is not internal, then the cause can only be external. Its very simplistic. Internal means you are just not wired to cut it like others. External means things happened to you that did not happen to your competition in degree or kind that hurt your performance.

I see a lot of racism in what people argue because they are not starting with the same premise that I do, that all races are internally EQUAL. There is no way one can be so dismissive of external factors without one believing that its internal. People will eliminate ALL external causation to black gaps with whites, despite centuries of evidence of how white racism was beating blacks down for centuries. That racism is not accounted for in the current black condition. It's influence is dismissed as an excuse. All that is left, without saying it, is the internal wiring of blacks to explain these gaps.

If such reasoning is not racism, then you don't know what the definition of racism is.

[golgi1]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Well....science and emotions exists in two different realms. You are speaking from the emotional realm, trying to protect the white race and yourself, as opposed to the scientific realm of cause and effects or actions begetting reactions.

You literally have no idea what you are talking about in regard to science, and it shows.

You say that black wealth deficit did not take into considerations the variables of black crime and black academic performance. However, like wealth, black crime and black academic performance can be impacted by racism and there are likely also studies that show a link between black crime and racism, as well as, black academic performance and racism.

If Blacks are going to continue to blame their misbehavior and failure to study on anything else but themselves, they are going to continue to fall.

"There are likely also studies..."

is this a serious sentence?

There aren't. See my prior post for the rest.

Note when I say racism.....I am not talking about, necessarily, racism in the present tense, but rather, the accrued historical impact of racism and the role of self fulfilling prophecy as it relates to white supremacy and its doctrine of black inferiority.

Externalizing failure to any number of narrative fictions will only assure a continued fall.

You can believe me or not, but that's the truth and the results will continue to grow from that truth.

[Volobjectitarian]

Originally Posted by momonkey

The job applications I filled out over the years always have a statement on the back or at the bottom of the page that says "We are an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity employer."

So which is worse, the fact that you have probably been illegally discriminated against or the fact that I have likely been legally discriminated against?

I've been to job interviews where I lost to less qualified applicants, sometimes of different race or gender, sometimes not. Bottom line, everyone gets discrimination at interviews, since they are essentially popularity contests. I guarantee a few were because "white guy" didn't check the right diversity boxes, but whatever. Not always going to be most popular kid at the dance, and jobs are voluntary associations.

I think what is worse in your example is that there are cases where not forming a voluntary association can be considered illegal, as if a job belongs to the applicant and not the employer, or that by becoming an employer, you lose the right to voluntary association.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian

I've been to job interviews where I lost to less qualified applicants, sometimes of different race or gender, sometimes not. Bottom line, everyone gets discrimination at interviews, since they are essentially popularity contests. I guarantee a few were because "white guy" didn't check the right diversity boxes, but whatever. Not always going to be most popular kid at the dance, and jobs are voluntary associations.

I think what is worse in your example is that there are cases where not forming a voluntary association can be considered illegal, as if a job belongs to the applicant and not the employer, or that by becoming an employer, you lose the right to voluntary association.

Why don't whites ever talk about out of wedlock births being a problem in the white community? I have NEVER heard the topic "white out of wedlock births". You would think that they don't happen in the white community because all you hear about is "black out of wedlock births or single parent homes".

When blacks provide reasons for things that hold them back or that hurts them, whites try to discredit that with the "it does not just happen to blacks" argument. The goal is to show that blacks are not facing anything that others are not facing and that blacks are just making EXCUSES. All that is needed to discredit the black claim is to POINT OUT WHITES EXPERIENCING THE SAME.

Well...back to out of wedlock births. Many whites will point to out of wedlock births as the root cause of all black problems, dismissing the influence of racism. However, no white person then goes to find if there are any white out of wedlock births. White out of wedlock births happen in the white community too. Based upon there being white out of wedlock births too, that should discredit their claim that OOWLB is the cause of so many problems in the black community, because whites have them too.

Its worth noting that whites only focus on percentages or degree in which something impacts one race more than another, when they are looking to put down black people. However, if blacks are giving a reason, that is external, to why they struggle....whites are not concerned about percentages or blacks being impacted by something at much higher rates than whites. Its enough to discredit it by just suggesting that it happens to whites too....not just blacks.