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Why don't whites ever talk about out of wedlock births being a problem in the white community? I have NEVER heard the topic "white out of wedlock births". You would think that they don't happen in the white community because all you hear about is "black out of wedlock births or single parent homes".
It is a problem but nearly a problem compared to blacks. That said I agree it is rarely discussed.
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Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
When blacks provide reasons for things that hold them back or that hurts them, whites try to discredit that with the "it does not just happen to blacks" argument. The goal is to show that blacks are not facing anything that others are not facing and that blacks are just making EXCUSES. All that is needed to discredit the black claim is to POINT OUT WHITES EXPERIENCING THE SAME.
Not nearly to the same degree. Whites do't abandon their kids at the same rate for one reason.
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Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
Well...back to out of wedlock births. Many whites will point to out of wedlock births as the root cause of all black problems, dismissing the influence of racism. However, no white person then goes to find if there are any white out of wedlock births. White out of wedlock births happen in the white community too. Based upon there being white out of wedlock births too, that should discredit their claim that OOWLB is the cause of so many problems in the black community, because whites have them too.
hahahaha Yea racism is what causes single parent families. Whites don't have them at anywhere near the percentage blacks or hispanics do. And it is the biggest issue as to why more whites are not making it in this world. It's the main reason for all groups.
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Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
Its worth noting that whites only focus on percentages or degree in which something impacts one race more than another, when they are looking to put down black people.
awwww someones fewlings are hurt so they falsely playing the race card.
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Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
However, if blacks are giving a reason, that is external, to why they struggle....whites are not concerned about percentages or blacks being impacted by something at much higher rates than whites. Its enough to discredit it by just suggesting that it happens to whites too....not just blacks.
Another racist comment from the false race card player.
I get it, you feel beat up because you identify yourself as black and you feel you get grouped in with the dregs of your group. That's not you though right? Be an individual instead and start looking for the truth. That's what matters.
After watching your vid it makes me think of my simplistic view that racism is a taught behavior. But for that to be true I would have to conclude that blacks parents are teaching their children to favor the white race. In the vid many black children picked out the black doll as being ugly, bad and too dark. Are black parents teaching their children to favor the white race and have disdain for their own?
Maybe a mixture of both a taught behavior and something that is deep rooted in our sub conscience. I do not know but wanted to comment because I find this interesting.
There might be like let's say 10% impact of what parents are teaching, but it is more about what the world is teaching, though some stuff has improved.
I will just talk about my own personal experiences, I am also a dark skinned black woman, and this reflects reality for someone of my age group.
Here are some examples of white supremacy that can shape why a person will get this underlying message of black is bad, and colorism is very very relevant as well.
1. when we say "nude" that implies some sort of beige color that is closer to the average white person than the average black person. This is seen as the default shade - from bandaids to bras to pantyhose. It is still pretty difficult to find nude lingerie in my shade. And I have never seen a "nude" bandaid that matches me.
2. mainstream TV shows were full of white people when I was a kid, there were very very few shows with black people. And I can't recall a kids book I read with a main character that was black. All the default books were stories of white kids. Because white kids were deemed as the "normal" kids. Same with TV shows. You had to specifically seek out media with non- white people.
3. When I was younger, and I needed to get hair products, we had to make a special trip to the black neighborhood. Because the Target/Kmart/Drugstore had zero products for my hair. This is somewhat improved now, as most stores carry things, but typically in an "ethnic" section. Not the "regular" section - which is for people with straight hair, not my delicate oily hair. But this wasn't possible for most of my life. If I went to a "white" neighborhood or city there would be no haircare products for me. If I go to a hotel today, I better bring my own hair stuff because there will be nothing for me.
4. Even today, I can hardly find a shade of makeup that matches me. Maybe 20% of brands will have something that works for me, and it is certainly not at every drug store or Target. I wanted to get BB/CC cream when they came out, nothing was available for me until 4 years after the trend launched.
6. Black female celebrities - in all spaces - tend to be lighter like Beyonce and not darker like viola Davis (this is improving somewhat in the past 5 years). This is not related to talent, but because of both internalized racism, and the way "Hollywood" works. Darker women get to be druggies, prostitutes or sassy friends. Not love interests and stars and main characters. Now you may not have noticed this, because maybe you think "black is black" but look around to see what actresses get the most hype, what singers get the most hype, and which people play the most lead characters. It is rarely someone of Viola Davis's shade!
7. Let's talk about interracial relationships. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard that "mixed kids are the cutest!" Because we have decided lighter is better in our society.
So here you go, all this stuff adds up to tell you white (or closer to white) is better. And it isn't because your parents said so, it is because society did.
That is a cop out. What you presented, in general, is the case of people. Blacks and whites, as collectives, have had radically different socioeconomic outcomes from the beginning in America...or near the beginning. Both races have and have had hard workers, smart people, lazy people, less intelligent people, irresponsible people, etc, etc. Yet, the results of the socioeconomic of race has been starkly different. What is not being accounted for is the role that racism has played against blacks....but has not played against whites.
No, it's not. You can debate the role racism has played in society and you might well have a legitimate argument... but life isn't fair and never has been.
You're born and dealt a hand in the game of life. More important than the actual cards is the person who teaches you how to play that hand.
Because if you don't know how to properly play... you're going to lose.
I did not say statistics are racist. Statistics give people a reason to see blacks differently and shape a different view of blacks than whites. Then there is the deeper question of the root causes of those skewed statistics, which could be racism's long term impact.
Statistics still don’t tell the entire story of how things came to be the way they did.
There is no actual plan other than what I described. What is your actual plan for black wealth being 10 times less than whites? What is your plan for black poverty being twice that of whites? What is your plan for black homicides being 9 times that of whites? What is your plan to deal with black having an inferiority complex about being black? What will YOU or America do about any of these things....."since you never owned a slave and not the one responsible?" What is your or Americans plan other than letting these conditions just linger for another 100 years?
If you don't have an action plan....don't ask me for one or criticize anybody with one. Don't point blacks out as a problem if you are not willing to have blacks pointed out when applying the solution.
You cannot solve an inequality without DISCRIMINATION. Do the math....or learn it. There is no plan or solution that does not include some form of discrimination and targeting....which you call racism and black supremacy. Mathematically, show me how you correct an inequality without treating the sides differently. That is your assignment for the day. I already know you will not do it because you can't. It's not possible.
Wealth is derived over a lifetime, and sometimes handed down generationally.
Wealth is determined by income and investment.
The poverty rate would be tied to wealth rate because of the income component, and without excess income, you cannot create wealth.
But excess income can be created at almost any income level.
So, the only long-term way to solve wealth is through income.
In the past, I've asked you about various "reparations" programs I would propose. You've always declined, and you've declined again here. I'll lay them out quickly:
1. Post Civil War reparations - the promise of "40 acres" and later adding "and a mule". There were qualifiers, and this was a statement from Grant not a Federal Government action. Still, there's plenty of workable land in the US to meet the original constituency.
2. Black farmers in late 1800's/early 1900's who had their lands taken. I haven't seen much detail on this, but obviously if it occurred, the federal government failed to protect its citizens and so it should be addressed.
3. Jim Crow laws - some of the people who actually suffered under Jim Crow are still alive, and there should be a state mechanism (JC laws and discrimination didn't occur everywhere) first, and then possibly a federal mechanism for this. And since they are alive, and bear the educational and income scars of JC laws, they should be the first compensated. What if we gave all of those households $160K so their wealth = white median? That's $1T, max - and would be much lower because the blacks who had managed to garner $170K in wealth are already "whole".
In my opinion, income is a factor of education and skill. Surely we can simply say "studies show college graduates earn much more than HS degree-only". But that's assuming you get at least a HS education. Some good news:
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From 2000 to 2016, ...the Black dropout rate decreased from 13.1 to 6.2 percent, and the White rate decreased from 6.9 to 5.2 percent.
But nobody has to go to college to use or obtain a skill. We need all the tradespeople we can get. You can also go into sales and make very good money. These are skills that require additional study and skill-building beyond just getting a HS degree though.
First off, we both average about 1,000 post a year, me with ~ 13,000 post over 13 years and you with ~ 5,000 post over 5 years. Obviously none or both of us are on here too much, given we have the same amount of post in a year. Personally, I am aware of the opportunity cost of posting on this "social media". I do feel guilty and as if I waste an awful lot of time here and I have stopped for periods of time (some times through no choice of my own...lol). It's kind of an addiction, I must admit, as well as entertainment.
Secondly, this is the reaction from whites that I spoke of as being predictable. Actions ALWAYS create reactions. Whites are always talking about blacks getting their act together and stop blaming whites. When black come up with an action plan to do just that it creates a visceral reaction like yours. Blacks trying to solve the problems of blacks gets seen as black racism and black supremacy that is no different from white racism and white supremacy. Forget that blacks have been damaged by white supremacy and whites don't want to help repair that and that blacks are forced to try to fix their economical, physiological, cultural, behavioral deficits on their own. When we take action to TARGET and UPLIFT our own.....whites will see it as racism and then justify their racism, and more of it, because of black ACTIONS. Again, Action - Reaction.
Finally, the only thing that will keep whites happy is that if blacks take NO ACTION. Whites are not happy when blacks blame whites. Whites are not happy when blacks try to fix their own problems. Whites are happiest when blacks are docile and doing nothing and allowing the inequalities to persist. Those inequalities include black wealth being over 10 times less than whites. Black unemployment being nearly twice that of whites. Black poverty rate being over twice that of whites. Black homicide rates being 9 times that of whites. Black out of wedlock births being 2.5 times that of whites. White want to point out BLACK PROBLEMS....but whites don't want a targeted solution aimed specifically at or for blacks. They have no problem with targeting blacks to condemn them for such things, but they have a problem with targeting blacks specifically, by race (the way they described the problem eg...black out of wedlock births). You can define the problem as "black" if you are white, but you cannot define or offer a solution as "black".
Again....I am not asking your approval. You don't want the responsibility and burden to take a responsibility to correct these things because "You never owned a slave". Fine....we will do it ourselves and you won't like it still.
There might be like let's say 10% impact of what parents are teaching, but it is more about what the world is teaching, though some stuff has improved.
I will just talk about my own personal experiences, I am also a dark skinned black woman, and this reflects reality for someone of my age group.
Here are some examples of white supremacy that can shape why a person will get this underlying message of black is bad, and colorism is very very relevant as well.
1. when we say "nude" that implies some sort of beige color that is closer to the average white person than the average black person. This is seen as the default shade - from bandaids to bras to pantyhose. It is still pretty difficult to find nude lingerie in my shade. And I have never seen a "nude" bandaid that matches me.
2. mainstream TV shows were full of white people when I was a kid, there were very very few shows with black people. And I can't recall a kids book I read with a main character that was black. All the default books were stories of white kids. Because white kids were deemed as the "normal" kids. Same with TV shows. You had to specifically seek out media with non- white people.
3. When I was younger, and I needed to get hair products, we had to make a special trip to the black neighborhood. Because the Target/Kmart/Drugstore had zero products for my hair. This is somewhat improved now, as most stores carry things, but typically in an "ethnic" section. Not the "regular" section - which is for people with straight hair, not my delicate oily hair. But this wasn't possible for most of my life. If I went to a "white" neighborhood or city there would be no haircare products for me. If I go to a hotel today, I better bring my own hair stuff because there will be nothing for me.
4. Even today, I can hardly find a shade of makeup that matches me. Maybe 20% of brands will have something that works for me, and it is certainly not at every drug store or Target. I wanted to get BB/CC cream when they came out, nothing was available for me until 4 years after the trend launched.
6. Black female celebrities - in all spaces - tend to be lighter like Beyonce and not darker like viola Davis (this is improving somewhat in the past 5 years). This is not related to talent, but because of both internalized racism, and the way "Hollywood" works. Darker women get to be druggies, prostitutes or sassy friends. Not love interests and stars and main characters. Now you may not have noticed this, because maybe you think "black is black" but look around to see what actresses get the most hype, what singers get the most hype, and which people play the most lead characters. It is rarely someone of Viola Davis's shade!
7. Let's talk about interracial relationships. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard that "mixed kids are the cutest!" Because we have decided lighter is better in our society.
So here you go, all this stuff adds up to tell you white (or closer to white) is better. And it isn't because your parents said so, it is because society did.
All I hear in your post is entitlement.
I wear a 4e extra wide shoe. Most shoes aren't made in that size. Cry a river for me.
I have a 36" inseam which almost no one carries or even makes. Cry me another river because I'm a big baby.
At work I get asked to lift heavy things and do hard work that others are never expected to do. Oh the horror. Cry me river number 3.
So change it to single parent homes. The rate of white single parent homes has risen starkly in the last 50 years. Has the poverty rate increased for whites? Has the crime rate increased for whites? Has educational attainment decreased for whites?
If you are going to argue that single parent homes causes a lot problems....forget looking at blacks and just look at whites. Show me the correlation with causation between white wealth, white income, white poverty, which education, white crime that resulted in white single parent homes having a 6 fold increase over the last 50 years?
sometimes, you need to not use words that you're not familiar with going together. You've said English/composition weren't a strength.
You say that white SPH have increased 6-fold over the last 50 years. I know you've said something similar about OOWB, so are you confusing or conflating the 2? Or do you have a link?
The races are equal, but that doesn't mean what is an issue for one will be an issue for both. It matters WHY they achieve that state. Have black SPH been consistent for 50 years - which might indicate it's "built-in"? I don't know. I would suggest that the rate of white SPH is largely the result of the divorce rate.
At some point, we're (not necessarily you and I, but US society) going to come to an agreement of "what's harming US blacks?" and get an answer past "racism". You see 65% vs 24% and want to say "see, it's racist because white crime and other ills haven't risen as fast as the SPH rate." It would seem much more productive to me to determine what causes that rate, and what struggles SPH face, and try to fix that.
It's not the mere act of BEING a SPH. It's the difficulties that come with it, especially for the minority community. for whatever reason, 2.5x as many black HH are SPH. If we could show "500K black fathers that were part of 2PH are incarcerated on drug possession charges" - then that is a problem that can be solved. If it's "there's a $15K disincentive for low-income unmarried blacks to be 2PH", then that's a problem that can be solved.
There might be like let's say 10% impact of what parents are teaching, but it is more about what the world is teaching, though some stuff has improved.
I will just talk about my own personal experiences, I am also a dark skinned black woman, and this reflects reality for someone of my age group.
Here are some examples of white supremacy that can shape why a person will get this underlying message of black is bad, and colorism is very very relevant as well.
1. when we say "nude" .. - from bandaids to bras to pantyhose. ...
2. mainstream TV shows were full of white people ...And I can't recall a kids book I read with a main character that was black. ...
3. When I was younger, and I needed to get hair products...
4. Even today, I can hardly find a shade of makeup that matches me. ..
6. Black female celebrities - in all spaces - tend to be lighter like Beyonce and not darker like viola Davis ...
7. Let's talk about interracial relationships. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard that "mixed kids are the cutest!" Because we have decided lighter is better in our society.
So here you go, all this stuff adds up to tell you white (or closer to white) is better. And it isn't because your parents said so, it is because society did.
It's disheartening for you to say "parents are only 10%, so let me tell you how WHITE SUPREMACY is society is the other 90%"
I wonder what #5 was. as to 1-6, those are called OPPORTUNITIES to have a huge market share of an untapped market. #7 is truly your personal experience.
As to your empirical evidence, that is of far greater national concern, and must be corrected. A black man should receive the same sentence as the same white man. I am sure "has a paid-for attorney" makes a difference, but then it falls to judge (and jury) to help see past legal representation.
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