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Except he said he couldn't breathe before that, in my recollection.
Yes when he said that he was claustrophobic. Claustrophobia can cause a panic attack which can make it hard to breathe. Many things can cause one to have difficulty breathing. Severe allergy attacks, panic attacks, laying prone with someone kneeling on your back.
I agree. However, in this case I don't think the judge will force this jury to render a decision if they can't come to an agreement by early next week.
I suspect there are one or two who want a 2nd degree conviction and one, maybe two who want him to walk. The rest are fighting over 3rd murder and manslaughter.
The judge knows this trial has been a complete mess. If there is a hung jury I suspect we won't see another.. A deal will be struck. I don't think Chauvin will walk but ultimately I don't think he will do much time either.
They need to squash this rioting stuff this time hard. Otherwise, no one will ever get a fair trial if there are riots and burning after every one no matter the outcome.
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Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer
They need to squash this rioting stuff this time hard. Otherwise, no one will ever get a fair trial if there are riots and burning after every one no matter the outcome.
It would be better if they had a council of black leadership in Minneapolis who took control.
Apparently there was a group of local black leaders who quelled an earlier riot, in 2020, by calling for calm but vocal protests. Squashing stuff hard doesn't work as well as leadership from within taking charge.
And they have leaders there who can do this, and have in the recent past.
I am sure he was used to violent people making all kinds of false claims to get out of being arrested. I guess since neither of us were there, we have to maybe assume the cop had to use his experience and judgement. I am not a cop and you aren't, right? Or you think he was thinking 'How can I kill this black man, ruin my life and career and set off nationwide riots for it?
He wasn't thinking. Or 'thinking 'utilizing the current situation.
Just as none of us are these specialized professions, we are each human. In cuffs or not , we know our bodies best. If I say I can't breathe ..it's not a trick. It's my reality. If I go unconscious . It's not a possom move. It's my body doing what biologically , physiologicaly apt to do.
Putting three men over my body and continuing to force pressure in my mid body is not helping. It's impeding. And when I have no pulse. , The person's not thinking to render aide but instead keep the pressure on. Stopped being peace officers ...
Floyd was able to pass out in the Benz which is roughly the same size as the explorer. He was not claustrophobic he was lying trying to get released. He had a history of lying to cops and causing a scene when being arrested.
They were shoving him in the back and he asked to sit in the front. He was claustrophobic.
Because the judge rather foolishly refused to sequester the jury, the answer is an overwhelming "YES!!" And it would only take one jury member seeing that to pass that on to the rest. At least one juror lives in Brooklyn Center and has to drive through an active riot zone to get to the court. Any juror who might have been leaning towards "not guilty on all charges" now knows that such a verdict will destroy his or her life. The mob already knows where some of the jurors live. The mob will figure out where the rest of them live soon enough. Maxine Waters proclamation has given the jury only one option that will not endanger their lives and their safety. "Guilty on all charges."
If the judge no doubt fears for his own life, or he'd have declared a mistrial then and there. There can be no doubt that this jury is tainted. We will have to wait and see if the jury obeys the mob. The fact that they know that the mob is there at all destroys the entire court case. And to make matters worse, Maxine Waters set the standard that nothing short of first degree murder would be acceptable. So the jury's just flat screwed no matter what, because first degree murder isn't even possible.
I'm not sure if the question is just if I read the Instructions to the Jury. I did, and I do believe the jury is going to go through all the evidence meticulously. I was just noting the tone of the prosecution's closing arguments. The final thought was not regarding the autopsy or look at the medical evidence, it will lead you in the right direction. The final thought they wanted to put into jurors' minds was go with what you felt while watching the video.
I certainly don't think the jury is going to go back to the deliberation room and say, well he said just watch the video so that's all I'm going to do.
I honestly don't think the closing arguments did a whole lot for the prosecution's case, one way or the other. It was a decent summary of the case. The defense had more riding on the closing and I think Nelson did as good of a job as he could.
I watched Dr. Thomas' testimony several times. If you watch it several times, you'll see where she contradicts herself and where she says things just trying to stick to the narrative the prosecution has given her. A few places she was flat out wrong, such as the purpose of listing contributing factors in an autopsy report. She said it was largely listed for statistical purposes so that there was a record in case the CDC wanted to use the data. Dr. Baker said that was nonsense, he wouldn't list it if it didn't play a role in the death of Floyd. There is a reason she was called right before Dr. Baker. She essentially said, you don't need all his phony-baloney medical stuff, just watch the video.
This won't be easy for the jury. See where we now stand with our list of differentials.
1. Mechanical/positional asphyxia.
2. Opiate-mediated respiratory arrest.
3. Primary cardiac event (thrombotic/vasospastic coronary occlusion, toxic arrhythmia).
4. Idiosyncratic drug reactions (eg. non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema, as per the OP).
5. Zebras (very rare disorders).
Point 1 was never that tenable based on circumstantial evidence, and fell apart at the seams quickly on scrutiny.
Point 2 was proven improbable based on evidence of Floyd's ventilatory effort up until the moment of unresponsiveness.
We'll be looking more towards a primary cardiac or idiosyncratic disorder as the precipitating cause.
If the autopsy findings exclude evidence of a coronary event, that leaves us with either a drug-related arrhythmia, idiosyncratic drug reaction or a medical zebra +/- perfect storm of contributing factors (struggle, agitation, restraint).
All the simple diagnoses are gone. As difficult as it is, I think a longer deliberation time will be reassuring.
They were shoving him in the back and he asked to sit in the front. He was claustrophobic.
Criminals, even those who are High as F, know how to game the system. If they can get the police to send them to the hospital instead of jail, they might fall through the cracks and never be charged for the crime they were committing. Counterfeiting and drugs fit that bill perfectly. They're small enough that the police might just never follow up. This is no doubt why George Floyd was screaming that he couldn't breathe long before he asked them to put him on the ground and the police complied. He was playing games to get off.
No cop is stupid enough to stick a criminal they just arrested in the front seat. That's a very long list of disasters waiting to happen.
Yes when he said that he was claustrophobic. Claustrophobia can cause a panic attack which can make it hard to breathe. Many things can cause one to have difficulty breathing. Severe allergy attacks, panic attacks, laying prone with someone kneeling on your back.
Sure, but that's making a ton of assumptions without evidence... you know what there is evidence of that can make a person hypoxic? Taking an overdose of Fentanyl or having a heart attack.... and we know for a fact both happened.
So let's lean on what we know rather than those things there's no evidence of.
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