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They kind of do though. If the knee didn't cause the death, it's just another overdose for Floyd....one that finally killed him.
Paramedics were called for and they were waiting for them to arrive.
If they can prove that police procedure was to restrain suspects until paramedics arrive then basically all the cases fall off. The police department itself would be open to a lawsuit, but the criminal cases, at least against the officer involved would fail.
The more likely criminal case being against his dealer who gave him the drugs.....and that's why he doesn't want to testify.
Actually, no. Chauvin's comments at the scene, that Floyd appeared to "on something", tells us that he was aware of a possible overdose. Since Floyd was in their custody, they had an obligation to help him, not harm him. We don't know if they had narcan in their cruisers (Minneapolis police officers are supposed to) which they could have administered, but we do know that police procedure was to turn someone on their side who is having trouble breathing, which the police officers did not do. We do know that Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck even after Floyd became unresponsive, even after one of the other police officers told Chauvin he couldn't find a pulse. That is not police procedure. The paramedic had to ask Chauvin to get off Floyd.
The dealer is a criminal who doesn't want to testify about his criminal activities. Drug dealing is a criminal activity.
I think that's too uncharitable. I think the expertise is potentially more than adequate when it comes to knowledge of relevant drugs and how they act on the body, I just don't agree with the conclusions being drawn.....but I see how they got there based on what they deal with on a regular basis.
Someone having what is believed to be an inaccurate opinion doesn't always have to be due to inadequate knowledge or experience. Sometimes it can be nothing more than a misapplication of experience and knowledge.
Misapplication of experience and knowledge? That is a scew-up. What can't you people say it like it is and not use fancy words to make others look like deplorables?
Actually, no. Chauvin's comments at the scene, that Floyd appeared to "on something", tells us that he was aware of a possible overdose. Since Floyd was in their custody, they had an obligation to help him, not harm him. We don't know if they had narcan in their cruisers (Minneapolis police officers are supposed to) which they could have administered, but we do know that police procedure was to turn someone on their side who is having trouble breathing, which the police officers did not do. We do know that Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck even after Floyd became unresponsive, even after one of the other police officers told Chauvin he couldn't find a pulse. That is not police procedure. The paramedic had to ask Chauvin to get off Floyd.
The dealer is a criminal who doesn't want to testify about his criminal activities. Drug dealing is a criminal activity.
There's a big difference between being "on something" and "potentially about to die from overdose", a lot of people get high, relatively few ever overdose, even fewer overdose so badly they die.
They are not miracle workers, unless the cop had NARCAN or something similar, there was little they could do besides wait for paramedics to arrive.
The reason he was having trouble breathing was because he was having a heart attack due to the overdose of Fentanyl and the meth he was on. It wasn't due to chest compression.
When you are dealing with an uncooperative suspect that is high, you have to keep them restrained for EVERYONE'S safety. You can't assume rational behavior. There's many other situations where cops have failed to do so and the suspect ends up getting loose and either getting themselves shot or the cops themselves end up dead.
I think it's best to try and empathize with everyone involved. This cop had to deal with a drug addict that was ridiculously high who was 6'4 220+ lbs that worked out every day and was freakishly strong who had a history of violent crime. Given Floyd's choices, there was no way this encounter was going to end well for anyone. Personally, I would have done things differently than this officer did if in his shoes....but it's easy to be a Monday morning QB.
Given the knee on the neck, and the length of time he had it there, I fully support some kind of conviction of the officer. He deserves to do time.....but I don't think it was murder given all of the information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragnet
I think the cops were taken by surprise by the speed with which Floyd’s condition deteriorated. How often does someone die within minutes of the police arriving? (Not counting something like being shot.)
For sure, they knew he was high, I don't think they expected him to die before paramedics arrived.
All this talk about carotid artery pressure .... I am going to confess a stupidity when I was young.
So friends and I, for a thrill, found out if you compressed your carotid artery's, effectively cutting off the blood supply to the brain, you would pass out. Just the finger tips of the index and middle finger on one side of the Adams apple and tip of the thumb on the other side, with mild pressure would cause you pass out, your hand would fall away, and a few seconds later you would wake up jerking as if you had had a seizure. We would laugh and think it was great fun, not realizing just how stupid we were.
The point being, other than this is stupid, dangerous and don't do it, is a young teenager with relatively light pressure can cut off circulation to their own brain without a lot of effort. A grown man, with his knee on the neck of another grown man could easily accomplish the same or similar thing. If the brain goes without oxygen for about 6 minutes, you are dead. Less than that for severe brain damage.
Next, fentynal is a respiratory depressant. Your breathing slows way down and you pass out with and over dose. Its onset of action is less than 60 seconds with a peak effect in 2–5 minutes. If Floyd had ODed on fentynal, he would have been out way before any police or EMS ever arrived. That is well known science and trying to say he ODed after being alert and oriented for a considerable time before he ever encountered LEO is the worst kind of obvious lie.
All this talk about carotid artery pressure .... I am going to confess a stupidity when I was young.
So friends and I, for a thrill, found out if you compressed your carotid artery's, effectively cutting off the blood supply to the brain, you would pass out. Just the finger tips of the index and middle finger on one side of the Adams apple and tip of the thumb on the other side, with mild pressure would cause you pass out, your hand would fall away, and a few seconds later you would wake up jerking as if you had had a seizure. We would laugh and think it was great fun, not realizing just how stupid we were.
The point being, other than this is stupid, dangerous and don't do it, is a young teenager with relatively light pressure can cut off circulation to their own brain without a lot of effort. A grown man, with his knee on the neck of another grown man could easily accomplish the same or similar thing. If the brain goes without oxygen for about 6 minutes, you are dead. Less than that for severe brain damage.
Next, fentynal is a respiratory depressant. Your breathing slows way down and you pass out with and over dose. Its onset of action is less than 60 seconds with a peak effect in 2–5 minutes. If Floyd had ODed on fentynal, he would have been out way before any police or EMS ever arrived. That is well known science and trying to say he ODed after being alert and oriented for a considerable time before he ever encountered LEO is the worst kind of obvious lie.
You have to cut off both sides to get an effective blood choke, one side won't do it. Also, it's a LOT harder to get that kind of choke on a grown man with strong neck muscles. It's why oftentimes in the UFC fighters going for a rear naked choke will tire their arms out without getting a proper choke.
As to the drugs, they were taken orally, not intravenously. Oral medication can take between 15-25 minutes to work.
Learn more science if you are going to try to go that route.
You have to cut off both sides to get an effective blood choke, one side won't do it. Also, it's a LOT harder to get that kind of choke on a grown man with strong neck muscles. It's why oftentimes in the UFC fighters going for a rear naked choke will tire their arms out without getting a proper choke.
As to the drugs, they were taken orally, not intravenously. Oral medication can take between 15-25 minutes to work.
Learn more science if you are going to try to go that route.
When was the last time you saw someone overdose on an opioid or opiate, taken through whichever route you choose, walk around, alert, oriented, telling you they can’t breathe because they have OD’d? Bye bye.
In this case, we can say criminal low life Floyd was worth more dead than he was alive. The opportunistic Floyd family cashed in pretty good on his death. They got $14 Million on GoFundMe and $27 Million on the settlement.
They kind of do though. If the knee didn't cause the death, it's just another overdose for Floyd....one that finally killed him.
Paramedics were called for and they were waiting for them to arrive.
If they can prove that police procedure was to restrain suspects until paramedics arrive then basically all the cases fall off. The police department itself would be open to a lawsuit, but the criminal cases, at least against the officer involved would fail.
The more likely criminal case being against his dealer who gave him the drugs.....and that's why he doesn't want to testify.
The family hired a forensic pathologist to perform a 2nd autopsy. I haven't found a copy of that autopsy, but here are a few news reports about it:
"On Monday, June 1, the family released the findings, which noted Floyd’s killing was "caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression that led to a lack of blood flow to the brain.”
"The report notes that weight, positioning, and even the handcuffs Floyd was wearing were all contributing factors that prevented his diaphragm from functioning properly, leading to his death, according to ABC News."
“He was in good health. The compressive pressure of the neck and back are not seen at autopsy because the pressure has been released by the time the body comes to the medical examiner's office.”
Your comments are unkind. Everyone posting about the case should be allowed their own opinion, without negative remarks like yours.
Science isn’t kind or unkind. Established scientific theories outweigh the opinions of people who appear to have no understanding of the subject they are posting about.
It’s actually embarrassing to read moronic comments posted by people without basic understanding of human physiology.
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The opportunistic Floyd family cashed in pretty good on his death. They got $14 Million on GoFundMe and $27 Million on the settlement. 
