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Old 02-10-2022, 11:18 AM
 
13,212 posts, read 21,835,413 times
Reputation: 14130

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Well, leftists hate science and thrive on emotion, so there's that.
You say this and yet you guys are always complaining that the left owns high tech. Ironic.
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Old 02-10-2022, 11:59 AM
 
46,963 posts, read 26,005,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Slavery has never been limited only to black people.
Which has exactly what to do with your unsupported position that "The height of racism ... was absolutely a consequence of evolutionary theory."?

Racists grabbed anything that was popular in the zeitgeist. If religion was the thing, well - blacks are inferior because of the Mark of Cain, so we're justified in treating them as inferior. If science was gaining favor, well, hello - look at us using science-sounding words to justify what we've been wanting to do all along. Nationalism gains favor? Those of other races are suddenly a threat to the nation. And so on and so forth. If, what God forbid, astrology ever becomes truly mainstream and respected, racists will find a way to argue that the motion of the planets favor their own race over others.

The "height of racism" came about because certain people have a deep-seated need to feel tribal superiority and, if allowed, to act on it. And because some unscrupulous leaders dipped into that need to propel themselves to power and riches.

In some parts of the antique world, at least, slavery tended to be a much more honest affair: You were a slave because you were unlucky, or unskillful at war, or to weak to rebel, or couldn't pay debts. That was the fate the gods assigned, guess it sucks to be you.
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Old 02-10-2022, 12:24 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,598,983 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Which has exactly what to do with your unsupported position that "The height of racism ... was absolutely a consequence of evolutionary theory."?

Racists grabbed anything that was popular in the zeitgeist. If religion was the thing, well - blacks are inferior because of the Mark of Cain, so we're justified in treating them as inferior. If science was gaining favor, well, hello - look at us using science-sounding words to justify what we've been wanting to do all along. Nationalism gains favor? Those of other races are suddenly a threat to the nation. And so on and so forth. If, what God forbid, astrology ever becomes truly mainstream and respected, racists will find a way to argue that the motion of the planets favor their own race over others.

The "height of racism" came about because certain people have a deep-seated need to feel tribal superiority and, if allowed, to act on it. And because some unscrupulous leaders dipped into that need to propel themselves to power and riches.

In some parts of the antique world, at least, slavery tended to be a much more honest affair: You were a slave because you were unlucky, or unskillful at war, or to weak to rebel, or couldn't pay debts. That was the fate the gods assigned, guess it sucks to be you.
I've never heard that about the Mark of Cain ---

Seems to me what you are referring to is prejudice; people of the same perceived race have differences in prejudices, so now what? Rate people by class groups? We do that too.

People have always been told by their authorities who they can and can not associate with ... then two get married from the opposite sides of the track (so-to-speak) then all hell breaks loose within the kingdoms. It's an old story that continues into present day.
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Old 02-11-2022, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,212,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Not genetic? What defines the social construct or rather who? If it isn't genetic, then what makes you and I different one from another? How did the Caucasians arrive in evolution without a genetic difference?
"The word "race", interpreted to mean an identifiable group of people who share a common descent, was introduced into English in about 1580, from the Old French rasse (1512), from Italian razza. An earlier but etymologically distinct word for a similar concept was the Latin word genus meaning a group sharing qualities related to birth, descent, origin, race, stock, or family; this Latin word is cognate with the Greek words "genos", (γένος) meaning "race or kind", and "gonos", which has meanings related to "birth, offspring, stock."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...epts#Etymology

Race is something like "family". But who we include in our family is arbitrary, and whether it matters is subjective.

If I were to declare Europeans their own race, I could just as well claim Germans as their own race. And by that logic, I might as well claim my own family(clan/tribe) as its own race.

The question is, why does it matter? Or does it matter?

That really depends on what you want the world to look like. If you want a society(IE a government) of hundreds of millions or billions of people, then it can't matter and it becomes an absurdity.

I think Lincoln's words are somewhat analogous to the current dynamic.... "A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave(black) and half free(white). I do not expect the Union to be dissolved—I do not expect the house to fall—but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing, or all the other."


So let me ask you, which is better, a small country or a big country? How small or how big? What is your operating principle? Why would one be better than the other?

Let's pretend there was no such thing as money. What would the world look like?
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Old 02-11-2022, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,212,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
The "height of racism" came about because certain people have a deep-seated need to feel tribal superiority and, if allowed, to act on it. And because some unscrupulous leaders dipped into that need to propel themselves to power and riches.
I'm not disagreeing with you that racism was used to justify slavery, colonialism, imperialism, and even genocide. What I'm saying is, it was far more complicated than you're making it out to be.

The government can't simply make up any story and everyone just believes it. Things have to conform within reason. It has to make sense. This is why racism against blacks was/is completely different than racism against Native-Americans and Asians.

As I wrote before, the Yellow Peril had nothing to do with inferiority. If anything, it was a belief in Asian superiority. The basic tenets are still clearly visible today. That Asian women sexually corrupt white men, and that Asian men will basically take over the world through their intelligence, hard-work, and sheer numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril

The racism against Native-Americans was almost entirely cultural, not racial. They were primitive, not stupid. Much like the Vikings were primitive compared to the Romans, but not stupid. The Romans were terrified of the Germans.

Benjamin Franklin: Remarks Concerning the Savages of North America

What makes racism so believable isn't that it comes from an authority, but that people want to believe it. Pretty much every authority in this country has been trying to stamp out racism for the last 50+ years. What drives racism is both individual experiences and a protective instinct. Most people want children and grandchildren who look like them, are similar in temperament and interests, and are otherwise compatible with their family. Also, they generally don't want their children dating or even socializing with "others" who might become an annoyance or burden on their lives, and otherwise complicate and bring misery unnecessarily to what might have been calm and easy.


The reasoning behind racism has to be persuasive. It has to make sense. A lot of the old justifications for racism didn't make sense and a great many people were never persuaded by them.

The reason Scientific Racism was the height of racism was because it was far more persuasive than all other justifications that came before it, and it was permanent.

In my own life, I can say without doubt that findings from science, including differences in DNA, brain studies, behavioral/personality studies, IQ scores, crime rates, etc, are the principle basis and justification for modern racism.

I remember reading an article a few years back that they can do an MRI scan on your brain, look at the amount of grey matter and the structure of your brain, and within a very high certainty calculate your IQ.

Someone proposed to use the technology to scan a representative sample of various races to determine their average intelligence. Such a proposal was deemed unethical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroi...l_implications

From the wiki article...

"It is becoming more accepted that a neurobiological basis for intelligence exists (at least for reasoning and problem-solving). The success of these intelligence studies present ethical issues. A large concern for the general population is the issue of race and intelligence. While little variation has been found between racial groups, the public perception of intelligence studies has been negatively impacted by concerns of racism. It is important to consider the consequences of studies that investigate intelligence differences in population-groups (racial or ethnic) and if it is ethical to conduct these studies. A study suggesting that one group is biologically more intelligent than another may cause tension. This has made neuroscientists reluctant to investigate individual or group differences in intelligence, as they may be perceived as racist."


So tell me Mr. Dane_in_LA, do you think they should do brain scan studies on every race to prove that all races are equally intelligent? Why or why not?
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Old 02-11-2022, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,763,561 times
Reputation: 10006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post

Race is something like "family". But who we include in our family is arbitrary, and whether it matters is subjective.

If I were to declare Europeans their own race, I could just as well claim Germans as their own race. And by that logic, I might as well claim my own family(clan/tribe) as its own race.
Yes. Race is kinship. Races are very large extended families the are somewhat inbred. How large such a group needs to be to fit the definition of "race" is arbitrary. But no, membership in kinship groups, while somewhat fuzzy, is far from arbitrary.

Quote:
The question is, why does it matter? Or does it matter?
We are connected to our kin both socially and biologically, and that matters. Clearly kinship groups have been very meaningful to most people throughout history.
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Old 02-11-2022, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,212,760 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
Yes. Race is kinship. Races are very large extended families the are somewhat inbred. How large such a group needs to be to fit the definition of "race" is arbitrary. But no, membership in kinship groups, while somewhat fuzzy, is far from arbitrary.

We are connected to our kin both socially and biologically, and that matters. Clearly kinship groups have been very meaningful to most people throughout history.
When I say arbitrary, that doesn't imply meaningless, but rather unclear. Take for instance the color spectrum in this link...

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-visibl...ectrum-2699036

We all know that the rainbow is Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet... But tell me, what is the exact wavelength where red becomes orange.


This is a map of average male phenotypes in Europe. Which ones are white? How do you know? Genes? Or just a feeling?

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comm...pes_in_europe/

If you have time, please watch this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef4OlJwzxxE

Last edited by Redshadowz; 02-11-2022 at 11:11 AM..
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Old 02-11-2022, 11:20 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,575 posts, read 28,680,428 times
Reputation: 25170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Pretty much every authority in this country has been trying to stamp out racism for the last 50+ years. What drives racism is both individual experiences and a protective instinct. Most people want children and grandchildren who look like them, are similar in temperament and interests, and are otherwise compatible with their family.
Some people don't want their kids to go to schools with low ratings, or they don't want crime in their neighborhood to go through the roof. Technically, such people can be deemed "racist."

So, there is that too.
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Old 02-11-2022, 12:07 PM
 
Location: SE UK
14,820 posts, read 12,032,662 times
Reputation: 9813
In the 21st Century the world is teaching everybody that there is nothing more 'evil' than simply being 'English'. For some reason these days the only people you can happily abuse without fear of being 'cancelled' are the 'English'.
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Old 02-11-2022, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,212,760 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Some people don't want their kids to go to schools with low ratings, or they don't want crime in their neighborhood to go through the roof. Technically, such people can be deemed "racist."
The only people who call them racist are idiot lefties. If you're not making your kid miserable, they aren't happy.

PS: Ratings don't reflect the quality of the educators. They reflect the quality of the children. And the quality of the children reflects the quality of the parents. A good school means "not the ghetto".
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