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Old 09-22-2021, 10:21 AM
 
21,952 posts, read 9,522,996 times
Reputation: 19477

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
It used to be, there wasn't this chasm between the highest and lowest paid workers. That a man (or woman, less so) could graduate high school, begin working for a company and work his way up from mailroom or stockroom or assembly floor, and if he was reliable and worked hard, by the time he was in his 40's he was in management and living quite comfortably.

That system isn't working for us anymore. And that is NOT socialism. That's capitalism at its finest.

What you're seeing now, is if you have a high school diploma and start work at the bottom, that's where you'll stay and oh by the way you'll need to work more than one job because it's likely not going to be a full time job with benefits.
No, it's CRONY capitalism. It's things like Obama sending money to Solyndra and them going belly up with taxpayer money. It's the Fed having to prop up the market from collapsing. You complain about rich and poor but the policies that create the wealth inequality are not capitalism. All the handouts to the poor create more of them. I am sure you see what's going on with Haitians at the border. Having millions of unskilled workers flooding in causes downward pressure on wages. And if you think unions care about poor people, I have a bridge to sell you. Who makes out there? Union bosses and pensioners.
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Old 09-22-2021, 10:22 AM
 
21,952 posts, read 9,522,996 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
I've been saying this same thing now for the last 20 plus years, and have gotten slammed for it. You can thank globalism, offshoring and outsourcing for this. Long gone are the days of "working ones way up". Welcome to the "service based economy" that we let ourselves fall into.
Right. And who is selling out US foreign policy to China while HIS family gets rich?
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Old 09-22-2021, 10:23 AM
 
21,952 posts, read 9,522,996 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Are 61% not making enough money to pay federal income taxes? If so, then why shouldnt the people not paying enough wages be taxed for what would normally be collected from the 61%?
Um, they are 'not making enough' because the sleaze bags in Congress set the tax rates and give them handouts.
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Old 09-22-2021, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,215,763 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
So 61% pay ZERO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES and Biden and the Democrats want to greatly increase entitlements, so it could get worse.
Corporate taxes are not paid by corporations. Payroll taxes are not paid by employers. Property taxes are not paid by landlords. And asset appreciation(capital gains) is driven almost entirely by the machinations of the feral reserve.

People who work pay taxes. People who live off the labor of others don't pay taxes. And don't get me started on licensing, subsidies, zoning laws, etc.

https://www.niskanencenter.org/liber...welfare-state/
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Old 09-22-2021, 10:33 AM
 
29,509 posts, read 14,673,560 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
Right. And who is selling out US foreign policy to China while HIS family gets rich?
There is plenty of blame to go around, most of which was set in place decades ago. We are now seeing the results of that, and the pandemic just exacerbated it. And it isn't going to get any better. That wage gape is only going to get bigger. The haves will run away from the have nots. Adding to that, the flood of illegals. There is no amount of legislation that is going to reverse this.
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Old 09-22-2021, 11:12 AM
 
21,952 posts, read 9,522,996 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
There is plenty of blame to go around, most of which was set in place decades ago. We are now seeing the results of that, and the pandemic just exacerbated it. And it isn't going to get any better. That wage gape is only going to get bigger. The haves will run away from the have nots. Adding to that, the flood of illegals. There is no amount of legislation that is going to reverse this.
They could if they wanted to.
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Old 09-22-2021, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Sector 001
15,946 posts, read 12,297,747 times
Reputation: 16109
Given how low wages are and how high inflation has been, and that the top and bottom suck from the middle, and inflation is a hidden tax, yes it's sustainable because they will use unlimited QE to keep printing and spending regardless of how much tax revenue they get or what we think about it.

It's why more in the middle are quitting the system, because the pay is not worth what it costs to purchase assets. The nuclear family has also been in gradual decay, birth rates are down, and without a wife and kids there's no incentive for a man to play ball and remain a cog in the machine. We have less to lose, so we can give the middle finger to the system that perpetuates these problems.

I'm one of the more lucky ones... have net worth, make good money, rent has not gone up, but others are not so lucky. If they want to attract employees, they have to pay more. Maybe get rid of this "just in time" inventory system and actually store extra capacity for supply disruptions... or do things like create extra ICU space so it's there if needed during pandemics so we aren't forced to lock everyone down and collapse the supply chain to treat the illness. Just in time inventory makes the entire system quite fragile. I don't know if it's possible to reverse the damage done now, because they don't have the manpower to do it. Democrats whining that republicans only care about the economy... well it's because the supply chain is so damn fragile. There's blame to go around on both sides.

Back when you couldn't even find a job because of the glut of labor when my father was younger than I am, they should have been doing things differently, rather than focusing on earnings per share and the bottom line, lowering interest rates to blow up asset bubbles to benefit the financial industry and line the pockets of corporate executives... those bean counters who thought outsourcing and just in time were good ideas... human beings thinking and planning for the short term, rather than planning for what might happen a generation out with the choices they make. Having to bail out corporations because they can't be bothered to manage their spending in a way to keep spare cash around for a rainy day...

Good luck with your vaccine mandates by the way. The trucking industry is one of the most important, and keep pushing the issue and not let people make the choice on their own, the potential repercussions of this decision are monumental. Keep paying people to not work also, see how well that works out. The little experiment in UBI the democrats want to try... covid was a trial run and you see what happens when there is labor shortages...

Last edited by sholomar; 09-22-2021 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 09-22-2021, 11:25 AM
 
18,805 posts, read 8,481,648 times
Reputation: 4131
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Of course it's not sustainable. But China will continue to loan the USA money to pay for it, while the nation gets weaker and weaker. This is their plan, and I think we all know how it will end, if we continue on this road to ruin.
China hasn't 'loaned' the USA any money in a year.

https://ticdata.treasury.gov/resourc...uments/mfh.txt

China still needs some USD to do business out in the world. And China owns and used USD's and USD denominated debt to help them control the value of their currency. They are still export dependent, and as such they will want to persistently devalue their sovereign currency.

As China pivots their economy more towards their people as consumers, this may all change.
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Old 09-22-2021, 11:25 AM
 
3,351 posts, read 1,239,574 times
Reputation: 3914
Quote:
Originally Posted by sholomar View Post
Given how low wages are and how high inflation has been, and that the top and bottom suck from the middle, and inflation is a hidden tax, yes it's sustainable because they will use unlimited QE to keep printing and spending regardless of how much tax revenue they get or what we think about it.

It's why more in the middle are quitting the system, because the pay is not worth what it costs to purchase assets. The nuclear family has also been in gradual decay, and without a wife and kids there's no incentive for a man to play ball and remain a cog in the machine. We have less to lose, so we can give the middle finger to the system that perpetuates these problems.

I'm one of the more lucky ones... have net worth, make good money, rent has not gone up, but others are not so lucky. If they want to attract employees, they have to pay more. Maybe get rid of this "just in time" inventory system and actually store extra capacity for supply disruptions... or do things like create extra ICU space so it's there if needed during pandemics so we aren't forced to lock everyone down and collapse the supply chain to treat the illness. Just in time inventory makes the entire system quite fragile. I don't know if it's possible to reverse the damage done now, because they don't have the manpower to do it.

Back when you couldn't even find a job because of the glut of labor when my father was younger than I am, they should have been doing things differently, rather than focusing on earnings per share and the bottom line, lowering interest rates to blow up asset bubbles to benefit the financial industry and line the pockets of corporate executives... those bean counters who thought outsourcing and just in time were good ideas... human beings thinking and planning for the short term, rather than planning for what might happen a generation out with the choices they make. Having to bail out corporations because they can't be bothered to manage their spending in a way to keep spare cash around for a rainy day...
if you owned a retail business you'd stock way more inventory then you're going to need for the foreseeable future? sounds like a horrible plan.
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Old 09-22-2021, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,462 posts, read 7,098,820 times
Reputation: 11708
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Another way to look at this, is how many of those 61% who don't pay income tax are working at what we deem "essential" jobs, by pandemic standards?

They're working hard, full time, wrecking their knees and backs, for the profit of private business and still not making enough money to be comfortable.

How about, instead of us considering that "we" are supporting "them", "they" are supporting the capitalist system that leads to incredible wealth for those at the top of the chain, who have completely healthy knees and backs?

Grocery store stocking clerks, fast food workers, big box employees, who we all NEED, maybe need to be seen as the givers and not the takers?



I agree about essential employees....

But you do know that most of the people that you are describing DO pay taxes.... right?

Especially as they move up the ladder as the years go by.

Most people don't stay on the same rung their entire lives.
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