California bill to expand abortion to legalize Infanticide 28 days post birth (injection, carry)
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Which is why you only concern yourself with legal. If it were legal to kill newborns, AKA post-birth abortion, your posts indicate you would be OK with it.
Sick. Evil. Sick.
Moving on.
Please cite the post where I said what you claim I think.
Killing newborns is not legal and never will be. The idea that it will be is just more antiabortion rhetoric with no basis in reality.
Does it clearly state there will be no criminal penalties for killing babies? I dont see that clearly stated.
(f) Pregnancies can end in a range of outcomes. Nationwide, as many as one in five known pregnancies end in miscarriage. In California, as many as 2,365 pregnancies per year end in stillbirth, meaning perinatal loss after 20 weeks gestation. Many pregnancy losses have no known explanation.
123467. (a) Notwithstanding any other law, a person shall not be subject to civil or criminal liability or penalty, or otherwise deprived of their rights, based on their actions or omissions with respect to their pregnancy or actual, potential, or alleged pregnancy outcome, including miscarriage, stillbirth, or abortion, or perinatal death.
I dont see anything in there about killing or murdering. Death does not imply intentional killing.
It seems to me they are referring to outcomes of related to the pregnancy or birth.
This is how I read the draft as well. It relates to whether someone should be criminally liable for the death when the death results from something done during pregnancy, such as a child that is born addicted to drugs and dies a few days later as a result of withdrawal, etc. We can certainly debate about whether criminal liability should attach in such a situation, but that does not mean that someone can take affirmative actions to kill a baby after it is born, as some have asserted.
Also, as noted multiple times in this thread. This is a draft that needs to be worked through committee and the final version, if there is one, could be clearer than in the draft bill.
You can get a pretty good idea when a person loses touch with reality when they try to compare abortion to someone allowing their child to run through a busy restaurant.
Reading comprehension? Let me help.
We were talking about a woman endangering her fetus. My point was to question why we would punish someone for using drugs while she was pregnant and yet not punish the mother of a toddler who was allowed to run loose through a busy restaurant. I guess I could have made it clearer.
You don't think a toddler who runs through a busy restaurant isn't in some sort of danger from tripping the servers, getting hot plates dropped on him or be seriously hurt if he runs into the kitchen? You don't think his mother is equally responsible for the potential harm to this already-born kid and shouldn't be charged accordingly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankNSense
And of course, the only one who needs to take personal responsibility is the man.
It isn't like the woman who is not ready to have a child can't do something like keep her legs closed.
Gee, I was getting really worried there. I hadn't heard the "woman-must-keep-her-legs-closed" statement in almost half an hour. Didn't you know that that's the favorite statement of the "women-can't-have-sex-or-they're-sluts-but-men-are-allowed-to-have-all-the-sex-they-want-without-being-responsible" club?
So it isn't like the man who is not ready to have a child do something like keep his zipper up.
How does it feel to hear what women hear all the time? Did you not like it? Well, guess what. Women don't like the old double standard either.
--------------
To the person who called me a "sick b*****d", really, it was kind of you to give me a rep just so you could tell me how you felt, but you didn't have to. You could have just PMed me. Unless, of course, you just couldn't stand for me to know who you are.
But just for the record, I may be sick, but I'm not a b*****d. I'm a woman, so I'm a b***h. Get it right next time, 'K?
If leftists want to kill their babies should we really fight them on it? They'll just grow up to be a burden on society anyway. One less welfare case or gender studies major.
This is how I read the draft as well. It relates to whether someone should be criminally liable for the death when the death results from something done during pregnancy, such as a child that is born addicted to drugs and dies a few days later as a result of withdrawal, etc. We can certainly debate about whether criminal liability should attach in such a situation, but that does not mean that someone can take affirmative actions to kill a baby after it is born, as some have asserted.
Also, as noted multiple times in this thread. This is a draft that needs to be worked through committee and the final version, if there is one, could be clearer than in the draft bill.
It boggls the mind how anyone can read the bill and conclude that it says CA is legalizing infanticide within 28 days post birth.
I certainly agree the wording needs work.
There is no criminal penalty now if a baby dies without being "killed" (e.g. SIDS), any more than there is if a woman has a spontaneous miscarriage. And there is no penalty if parents make the choice under guidance from a medical doctor not to put a very sick or handicapped baby on life support, or perform extensive surgery etc. which is highly unlikely to prolong life and/or give the child any quality of life. So there must be more to it than that, or it wouldn't have been mentioned.
For instance, in the hypothetical case that a newborn with Down's syndrome needs lifesaving heart surgery which is anticipated to repair the heart and give the child a quality of life consistent with other people with Down's syndrome, is it legal / moral /ethical to refuse the surgery and allow the baby to die?
Lets use the logic of the anti-choice crowd concerning their belief NYS late term abortion legislation allows a healthy fetus to be killed at 40 weeks as a woman is giving birth because she changed her mind:
It boggls the mind how anyone can read the bill and conclude that it says CA is legalizing infanticide within 28 days post birth.
I certainly agree the wording needs work.
Its very black and white how this legalizes post-birth abortion, and withdrawals criminal liability and HCP's. I'm not sure what other information you're expecting in the bill such as "WE NOW LEGALIZE POST-BIRTH ABORTION FOR 28 DAYS", laws simply are not written that way. The courts will go back and forth debating the nuances of the bill however the consensus of the law is that it was designed to open up the post-birth abortion industry. The link in the OP's opening post has Harvard Lawyers explain the bill in 1 minute and how it does legalize it. The courts will certainly need to define a "perinatal death" but depending on the source the days are as much as 28 days, "a few weeks", a month.
If leftists want to kill their babies should we really fight them on it? They'll just grow up to be a burden on society anyway. One less welfare case or gender studies major.
Let them face their own God or conscience.
I agree that they should be allowed to kill their own children, whats the difference in allowing murder BEFORE its born, versus a few weeks after birth? (a few weeks are THAT significant a factor to some people?) Besides, its still the mothers choice.
Its very black and white how this legalizes post-birth abortion, and withdrawals criminal liability and HCP's. I'm not sure what other information you're expecting in the bill such as "WE NOW LEGALIZE POST-BIRTH ABORTION FOR 28 DAYS", laws simply are not written that way. The courts will go back and forth debating the nuances of the bill however the consensus of the law is that it was designed to open up the post-birth abortion industry. The link in the OP's opening post has Harvard Lawyers explain the bill in 1 minute and how it does legalize it. The courts will certainly need to define a "perinatal death" but depending on the source the days are as much as 28 days, "a few weeks", a month.
Does it clearly state there will be no criminal penalties for killing babies? I dont see that clearly stated.
Please show me where it legalizes infanticide, (no such thing as post-birth abortion) in black and white. It says perinatal death, no perinatal murder, killing or assisted death.
(f) Pregnancies can end in a range of outcomes. Nationwide, as many as one in five known pregnancies end in miscarriage. In California, as many as 2,365 pregnancies per year end in stillbirth, meaning perinatal loss after 20 weeks gestation. Many pregnancy losses have no known explanation.
123467. (a) Notwithstanding any other law, a person shall not be subject to civil or criminal liability or penalty, or otherwise deprived of their rights, based on their actions or omissions with respect to their pregnancy or actual, potential, or alleged pregnancy outcome, including miscarriage, stillbirth, or abortion, or perinatal death.
I dont see anything in there about killing or murdering. Death does not imply intentional killing.
It seems to me they are referring to outcomes of related to the pregnancy or birth. And yes I'm hoping upon further review of the draft they will clarify perinatal death.
I agree that they should be allowed to kill their own children, whats the difference in allowing murder BEFORE its born, versus a few weeks after birth? (a few weeks are THAT significant a factor to some people?) Besides, its still the mothers choice.
There is no wording in the bill about killing babies. It addresses criminal charges for miscarriage, abortion and perinatal death, not perinatal homicide.
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