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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.50%
No 245 50.94%
Unsure 46 9.56%
Voters: 481. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-25-2022, 07:31 AM
 
19,036 posts, read 27,607,234 times
Reputation: 20278

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In the best JB64 traditions


AUDITE ET ALTER PARS, as the truth is always between the two opposite poles:


Key take aways


TASS: the forces of the LPR and the Russian Federation enteredLisichansk
BFM.ru

According to Vitaly Kiselyov, Assistant Minister of the Interior of the LPR, about 4,500 servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be encircled near Lisichansk.
Rossiyskaya Gazeta
According to Kadyrov, residual fighting is taking place in the vicinity of the airport, and a cleansing of the village of Borovskoye in the suburbs of Severodonetsk is also underway.
IA Krasnaya Vesna
However, the forces of the NM LPR have already begun to approach the western outskirts of Lisichansk.

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation announced the refusal of the battalionof the Armed Forces of Ukraine to leave Lviv for the Donbass
Gazeta.ru
The ministry noted that the Ukrainian command was forced to form separate rifle battalions from untrained mobilized citizens to make up for losses.
RIA Novosti
In particular, in the Donbass, more than 30 servicemen of the 25th brigade of the Airborne Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine arbitrarily left their positions, leaving their weapons.
TV Center

British Prime Minister Johnson said about the pressure of European countries on Ukraine

Boris Johnson, Prime Minister of Great Britain: "Therefore, pressure will increase to induce, and maybe even force Ukrainians to a bad peace."
NTV
As the agency reports the words of the British prime ministerReuters

, "too many countries" argue that what is happening in Ukraine "is not necessary".
TK Zvezda
Russia launched a military operation in Ukraine on February 24.
RIA Novosti
Similar statements were made by the authorities of the Zaporozhye and Kherson regions of Ukraine, which are under the control of the Russian military.
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Old 06-25-2022, 10:46 AM
bu2
 
24,106 posts, read 14,891,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
I wonder how many victories the Soviet Union logged in before they left Afghanistan in disgust.

The war is destroying Russia, who is, in turn, destroying Ukraine. Ukraine, however, will be rebuilt. Russia never will be.

The "Butcher of Syria", General Dnornikov, who was picked by Putin to take over Ukrainian operations, has been fired. It turns out he had no talent for shooting at people who shoot back and spent most of his time drunk.
Russian oil and gas sales remain relatively strong, but as an economist explains, it does not finance the war. What is does, he explains, is provide Russia with money that cannot be spent. Money cannot be spent because imports have been drastically cut. So there is little to buy.
Interesting article for those with an interest in strategic planning.
The idea is to give Ukraine the opportunity to fight as long as they want. Sooner or later they will get the Russians out of most of the territory they control. It might take 20 years. But most likely, Russia will be bankrupt well before then. They are rapidly running out of men without doing a full mobilization. And a full mobilization will take 6 months or so before they get useful troops into the field.
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Old 06-25-2022, 10:56 AM
 
4,972 posts, read 2,712,589 times
Reputation: 6949
Quote:
Originally Posted by double6's View Post
Russia still has a 10 to 1 advantage of artillery and rockets over Ukraine..that is the only thing that allows them to move ahead, BUT their (Russia's) Army is constantly being degraded on the battlefield..the tide will turn in Ukraine's favor I believe in the coming weeks..
And Ukraine's Army is not being degraded on the battlefield? It is indeed being degraded and at a faster rate than Russia's. Ukraine will not have the ability to turn the tide even with Western weapons. The only thing that will turn the tide in Ukraine's favor is NATO boots on the ground or the use of nuclear weapons.
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Old 06-25-2022, 11:23 AM
bu2
 
24,106 posts, read 14,891,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
And Ukraine's Army is not being degraded on the battlefield? It is indeed being degraded and at a faster rate than Russia's. Ukraine will not have the ability to turn the tide even with Western weapons. The only thing that will turn the tide in Ukraine's favor is NATO boots on the ground or the use of nuclear weapons.
Ukraine has already mobilized. They have 40 million people. The Russians are invading that country with 200,000 soldiers (plus some proxies and mercenaries), of whom, 20,000 have been killed according to the UK.
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Old 06-25-2022, 11:26 AM
bu2
 
24,106 posts, read 14,891,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolceVita67 View Post
The question should be how the people in Donbas (20% of Ukraine) which Russia just conquered will accept Russian rule or rebel. I won’t make predictions here.

The west is a huge hypocrite. French troops are currently illegally in Mali and US troops are illegally in parts of Syria.
Russia will have to kill or cleanse most of the population. The pro-Russian parts of the Ukraine were conquered in 2014 (Crimea and the southeast part of the Donbass). They are having substantial difficulties controlling the southern areas they overran in the early part of the war.
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Old 06-25-2022, 11:43 AM
 
10,864 posts, read 6,480,995 times
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I wonder how many people in other continents are starving due to shortage of Ukrainian grain?
In EGypt and Turkey,bread price just skyrocket,and rest if AFrica
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Old 06-25-2022, 12:02 PM
 
4,972 posts, read 2,712,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Ukraine has already mobilized. They have 40 million people. The Russians are invading that country with 200,000 soldiers (plus some proxies and mercenaries), of whom, 20,000 have been killed according to the UK.
But Russia has a larger population and can call on more personnel as needed. Apparently Russia feels that it doesn't need any more forces to conduct its operation at this time. And what does that say about the quality of the Ukrainian forces if Russia can make significant gains with just 200,000 personnel? Why hasn't Ukraine thrown everything they have at the Russians and pushed them back? Actually, they have but cannot stop the Russian steamroller as it rolls over the well-prepared Ukrainian defensive positions and moves on. Donetsk and Lishansk are just about fully liberated. 200,000 Russians vs. millions of Ukrainians. Hmm...
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Old 06-25-2022, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Elysium
12,387 posts, read 8,152,322 times
Reputation: 9199
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
But Russia has a larger population and can call on more personnel as needed. Apparently Russia feels that it doesn't need any more forces to conduct its operation at this time. And what does that say about the quality of the Ukrainian forces if Russia can make significant gains with just 200,000 personnel? Why hasn't Ukraine thrown everything they have at the Russians and pushed them back? Actually, they have but cannot stop the Russian steamroller as it rolls over the well-prepared Ukrainian defensive positions and moves on. Donetsk and Lishansk are just about fully liberated. 200,000 Russians vs. millions of Ukrainians. Hmm...
Or can they an effort in Vietnam once collapsed when Americans decided it wasn't worth the widows and fatherless
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Old 06-25-2022, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,891,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo101 View Post
I wonder how many people in other continents are starving due to shortage of Ukrainian grain?
In EGypt and Turkey,bread price just skyrocket,and rest if AFrica
Not Putin's problem. If they are hungry, they can buy Russian grain with rubles. Or grow their own.
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Old 06-25-2022, 01:39 PM
bu2
 
24,106 posts, read 14,891,132 times
Reputation: 12941
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
But Russia has a larger population and can call on more personnel as needed. Apparently Russia feels that it doesn't need any more forces to conduct its operation at this time. And what does that say about the quality of the Ukrainian forces if Russia can make significant gains with just 200,000 personnel? Why hasn't Ukraine thrown everything they have at the Russians and pushed them back? Actually, they have but cannot stop the Russian steamroller as it rolls over the well-prepared Ukrainian defensive positions and moves on. Donetsk and Lishansk are just about fully liberated. 200,000 Russians vs. millions of Ukrainians. Hmm...
Your info is wrong. The Russians have made almost no progress in Donetsk since the war started.
They have enslaved and/or leveled most of Luhansk.
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