Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.50%
No 245 50.94%
Unsure 46 9.56%
Voters: 481. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-27-2022, 07:19 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,575 posts, read 17,293,027 times
Reputation: 37334

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by DolceVita67 View Post
Russia has more liquid assets now than at the start of the war.

The issue here is paying back the debt in Euros. Europe is demanding it in Euros vs any other currency, at the same time they won’t sell Euros to Russia due to the sanctions. It’s obviously a catch-22. Anyways Russia defaulting on those “eurobonds” will only hurt the holders of those bonds. It won’t hurt Russia.
The issue, My Friend, is that Russian bond holders will not be getting their dividend - not in any currency. The last time this happened was 1918.
So Russia will no longer be able to sell bonds to raise money, will they? ..... That's how it hurts Russia.


Your opening statement is ludicrous. Hundreds of billions of dollars in Russian assets have been frozen and Russia is now withering as a result. Let's not pretend they never needed it, anyway, OK?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-27-2022, 07:46 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The issue, My Friend, is that Russian bond holders will not be getting their dividend - not in any currency. The last time this happened was 1918.
So Russia will no longer be able to sell bonds to raise money, will they? ..... That's how it hurts Russia.


Your opening statement is ludicrous. Hundreds of billions of dollars in Russian assets have been frozen and Russia is now withering as a result. Let's not pretend they never needed it, anyway, OK?
That's nonsense.

The whole world knows that Russia has more than enough money to pay back its debt. Default means a country is not able to pay, but Russia is able and willing. If others try to prevent that from happening it is not Russia's fault.

Also, a default only has an impact on a country's credit ranking so to speak. And usually it shows in the crash of a country's currency. But look at the ruble today, stronger than ever. Investors and economists know very well that this has nothing to do with a default.

If Russia needed a credit, they could get it from alternatives. I am sure China for instance would lend money to Russia, using their own currencies. I think this pseudo-default will hurt the West a lot in the future because other countries will shy away from the Western system in order to avoid similar problems.
Western investors are not the only ones, you know. In fact, did you know that the world does not revolve around the West anymore?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2022, 08:04 AM
 
8,151 posts, read 3,678,584 times
Reputation: 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The issue, My Friend, is that Russian bond holders will not be getting their dividend - not in any currency. The last time this happened was 1918.
So Russia will no longer be able to sell bonds to raise money, will they? ..... That's how it hurts Russia.


Your opening statement is ludicrous. Hundreds of billions of dollars in Russian assets have been frozen and Russia is now withering as a result. Let's not pretend they never needed it, anyway, OK?

They have already been cut off. I'm surprised that with your profound knowledge of the subject you were not aware of that.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...f810c5922f0315
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2022, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,892,582 times
Reputation: 2972
Donetsk People Republic found a beautiful way to address man shortage in their recovery efforts. Now, working migrants would be centrally hired, placed to live in a workers dorms (without the right to leave premises for any reasons but work), driven to and from work by bus and sent back to their country of origin at the end of their contract.

I think that's a smart way to handle the shortage of workers for low paid jobs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2022, 08:11 AM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,456,856 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
While there were various reasons for the invasion, here is a diagram that shows the trigger:
https://t.me/Ubersicht_Ukraine_Kanal/11040

As a couple of others have already said the war was actually started by Ukraine on the 16th when, after years of preparations, it started to dramatically increase the shelling of the Donbass, confirmed by the OSCE, which in turn made them turn to Russia for help.
False narrative.

They didn't "turn to Russia for help" ... they are puppet states. They are Russian proxies, taking their marching orders from the Kremlin. They are an excuse for Russia to do what Russia wants to do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2022, 08:31 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
False narrative.

They didn't "turn to Russia for help" ... they are puppet states. They are Russian proxies, taking their marching orders from the Kremlin. They are an excuse for Russia to do what Russia wants to do.

That is your view, based on propaganda. But of course you are wrong.
From a Swiss colonel, who, unlike you, is in the know:

Quote:
In fact, as early as February 16, Joe Biden knew that the Ukrainians had begun intense shelling the civilian population of Donbass, forcing Vladimir Putin to make a difficult choice: to help Donbass militarily and create an international problem, or to stand by and watch the Russian-speaking people of Donbass being crushed.

If he decided to intervene, Putin could invoke the international obligation of "Responsibility To Protect" (R2P). But he knew that whatever its nature or scale, the intervention would trigger a storm of sanctions. Therefore, whether Russian intervention were limited to the Donbass or went further to put pressure on the West over the status of the Ukraine, the price to pay would be the same. This is what he explained in his speech on February 21. On that day, he agreed to the request of the Duma and recognized the independence of the two Donbass Republics and, at the same time, he signed friendship and assistance treaties with them.

The Ukrainian artillery bombardment of the Donbass population continued, and, on 23 February, the two Republics asked for military assistance from Russia. On 24 February, Vladimir Putin invoked Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, which provides for mutual military assistance in the framework of a defensive alliance.

In order to make the Russian intervention seem totally illegal in the eyes of the public, Western powers deliberately hid the fact that the war actually started on February 16. The Ukrainian army was preparing to attack the Donbass as early as 2021, as some Russian and European intelligence services were well aware.
https://www.sott.net/article/466340-...-on-in-Ukraine
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2022, 08:53 AM
 
4,952 posts, read 3,057,967 times
Reputation: 6752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post

The whole world knows that Russia has more than enough money to pay back its debt. Default means a country is not able to pay, but Russia is able and willing. If others try to prevent that from happening it is not Russia's fault.

Also, a default only has an impact on a country's credit ranking so to speak. And usually it shows in the crash of a country's currency. But look at the ruble today, stronger than ever. Investors and economists know very well that this has nothing to do with a default.

In fact, did you know that the world does not revolve around the West anymore?

So long as the greenback remains the world reserve currency, it revolves around us.
This is how we maintain a higher standard of living, and the reason we have been involved in stupid wars at every turn.
There's only one credit card on the planet, and everyone wants it.
So let's call a spade a spade, it's always about money; and Russia wants it just as much as China or the U.S.
Politics are merely a sideshow to divert our attention from the greed factor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2022, 09:04 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbiz1 View Post
So long as the greenback remains the world reserve currency, it revolves around us.
This is how we maintain a higher standard of living, and the reason we have been involved in stupid wars at every turn.
There's only one credit card on the planet, and everyone wants it.
So let's call a spade a spade, it's always about money; and Russia wants it just as much as China or the U.S.
Politics are merely a sideshow to divert our attention from the greed factor.
That is a rather outdated view.

More and more countries are trading in their own currencies and avoiding both dollar and euro.

There is only one credit card on the planet?! Gee, under which stone are you living?

The role of money, well, interesting times with regard to that question. This is a decisive time as Russia is leaving its radical capitalist phase behind it and China also brings new priorities and attitudes to the world. Of course money is important, has been for thousands of years, but we are rediscovering more important things now. And the West with its psychopathic ways is losing ground.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2022, 09:06 AM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,456,856 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
That is your view, based on propaganda. But of course you are wrong.
From a Swiss colonel, who, unlike you, is in the know:
There are many avenues to Russian propaganda. It spreads like mold spores.

Unlike Russia, Ukraine has the right to fight in the Donbas and reassert control. It belongs to them and as a sovereign nation it has a moral duty to re-establish control over those Russian puppet states and secure it's own borders.

Russia has no such duty nor right. Russia is the source of the trouble in the Donbas, it is never the solution.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2022, 09:15 AM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,456,856 times
Reputation: 13233
Default The Postmodern Hell Of Russian Propaganda

The Postmodern Hell Of Russian Propaganda

Interesting take on Russian propaganda today. It is more insidious than the old Soviet model of propaganda.

They don't try to tell you black is white, they try to make you doubt the true nature of black or white, and suspicious of reliable sources. That is how they get people to think it is Ukraines fault that Russia had to attack and burn it's cities to the ground and dig mass graves to hide it's crimes. Russian propaganda is effective, it works.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j6Vg7yLx54&t=480s
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:33 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top